Swing analyze, hips and weight transfer

Hello, If someone could give me a few tips on my swing it would be great.

I'm having trouble hitting down and through the ball. I tried to get my hips more out on the left side to put more weight on the left foot during the downswing. I'm hitting better than I used to, but want you guys to take a look and give me some ideas as to if this is somewhat right.

Here's the link to Swing Academy: http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1814

I captured my swing a month or two ago, not much difference, but I think my weight is better on the one above: http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1815

You can of course comment on any part of my swing, but I'm working primarily on the downswing, impact and follow through.

I practiced some to get my weight on the left foot, I kept falling forwards. Then I thought about my hips, they pretty much control the weight, so by getting them forward I'm getting the weight over automatically.

I am no expert, but I just got back from classicswing golf school and one of the biggest things they told us that you want your hands to get to the ball before your club does, IE hands with the race.

Looking at your swing your hands and your club meet the ball at the same time. You dont want that.

Zeph, you labor over manipulating consequences rather than working on the cause. It is one swing which simply changes direction, making all which occurs in the down portion determined by what occurs in the up portion, and that determined by setup, preceeded by your mental concept of the swing. Do you see? You are trying to fix the last link in the chain when it is the first link which needs repair. Do you know that most of which occurs in the down portion is felt AFTER it occurs? Trying to time that gap and alter something which has been preestablished to occur will drive you batty and prevent you from learning to SWING.

I hesitate to go further as I know I have thrown you a tricky knuckleball. If you would like to discuss this further, post a downrange video as I would like to see more.

Yeah, you need some backswing adjustments I'd say and a downrange video would give us much more to work with. I think I can already tell that you are straightening your back leg. Keep the same flex in your knee starting at address and all the way through impact.

While I agree with Mr. Wedge's holistic approach, I also like Bobby Clampett's "Impact Zone" concept, so below is your impact position:

Feel free give my comments whatever weight you think they deserve.

1) I can see improvement in weight transfer and hip movement from the other video, but I think the hips could still be more open by this point.

2) I agree with earlier comment that you have thrown the club early and need to have hands leading more at impact.

3) I would work on your footwork. You are getting up on your right toe too early and I'm of the thought that the heel should be low to the ground leading back foot at impact.

You have the makings of a very pretty swing, keep working on it!

Thanks for all the answers so far. I've got footage of the sideview from the same time that I made the first video. That was the first time I saw that I was overdoing the wrists on the takeaway, also going over the top. On this video I'm going further back in the the backswing, this is much better now. I recorded 10-15 swings earlier today, with my 7 iron the club never got parallell to the ground, it was pretty much like you see in the video. Now I forgot to get sideview footage, I'll try to get that in the weekend, won't be able to tomorrow I think.

I understand what you're saying Mr. Wedge, I know I've got problems with my legs and hips, it's something I haven't worked much on. This could be the time to change that.

I struck much better today when emphazising on getting my hips out, open, and getting the weight over to the left foot durin the downswing. I'm not saying I'm going about this the right way, but it definately helped getting down on the ball. Still doesn't feel like a good swing though, as I also see from the video.

Anyways, here's a shot from the sideview, again, I think my plane is better now, the backswing certainly is shorter. I think I'm using less wrists in the takaway too, I'll try to get a video soon.
http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1816
Edit: Heh, the swing looks really like crap on this video.

I made a few comments at Swing Academy. Actually your plane is not bad although I see what you mean about the wirsts. You have a lot going for you.

The wrists are better now. It sounds comic, but I actually watched a Tiger short iron on Youtube side-by-side with my swing. I don't plan on copying him, but I could tell I used too much wrists in the takeaway, I have corrected some on this, but still got some work left.

Thanks very much for the analyze jambalaya, it was very interesting things you pointed out. Being about 15º off sounds like alot. I should be working from the first step of the shot, being the set up. I did a few test swings with my knees more flexed. It felt really weird, but that's what changing the swing is all about, getting some new feelings in. I felt very heavy backwards, not feeling stable, most likely because I've been too much bent forward. I ended up on the left heel. Still, that's nothing to worry about at this stage.

I can tell I need to work on my feet and hips also. I did some test swings the way I've done and noticed my right knee was stretched out. The inconsistent spine angle is pretty obvious. I'll have to make a list out of all this. Trying to work at one thing at the time.

How much should my legs and hips turn on the backswing? If I try to hold them back, that feels weird, could also be a good thing. My belt buckle (when I use one) is almost turned 180 degrees from the target. I got no resistance in my backswing, the hips and feet just follow wherever the arms go.
In the backswing, I've heard that the hips only should move as a result of the shoulders being fully turned, does this hold the water you think? I must work on resisting my hips and legs from turning.

Again, I really appreaciate all the help so far, sincerely. This is what makes golf so much fun, always working on the swing, one step at the time.

I am not sure how much is too much on the hip turn back but as a general rule your hips turn about 45 degrees while your shoulder turn depending on your flexibility could be anywhere from 90 to 110 degrees. If they turn the same amount you get no resistance and no coil. You should have resistance in your backswing and it should be felt from the inside of your right foot at the ground up to inner thigh just under your hips. If you lose the flex in your back knee you will not feel the resistance. I resist by setting the right knee and not letting it turn back. Your hips still turn even though it doesn't feel like it.

My shoulders turn over my right foot, I'm flexible enough for that. I was going to ask if hips should turn 45º, but somehow forgot. I can feel the pressure on the inside of my right foot when I try this.

My left knee will wander a bit forward and slightly back against the right knee because of the hip rotation, that's what I've seen the good guys do, so it sounds ok. It will stop moving as soon as my hips stop turning, so I'm thinking I should focus on resisting with the hips and keeping the flex all the way to the top. Since the feet and knees go where the hips go, they will get in the right position.

I've tried to get the feeling of keeping my spine angle, that'll take some work too, for sure. But since I'm going to raise the angle by 15º I just have to take my time with it, I must focus on the lower body first.

The winter is almost around the corner here, I'm probably playing my last 18 holes tomorrow, then I'll have to make some setup at home in a room where I can practice when the snow keep falling. I've made a list of things to work on, will have that list up throughout the winter, working on my swing. It'll be some time before the snow arrive, so I'll be able to practice outside for some time still. As long as I got a club and a video camera I can get much work done. I've never really worked on my swing that much until some months ago, but I'm seeing improvement and am really excited about using the internet to find help and using a video camera to analyze my swing.

A Pro would take $200 an hour for doing this, and here I get help for free. Reading, watching videos and pictures can be helpful, but being able to see your own swing, and let other look at it is very, very helpful. I've seen golf DVDs and read lots on the internet, but getting detailed feedback on a swing video is more helpful than anything I've ever tried.

Of course, I see that it takes lots of work, I'm the one who's got a job to do, but I'm really looking forward to it. The day I can hit a bad shot and wonder what I did wrong instead of wondering what I did right on a good shot will be a day to celebrate.

You seem to have a healthy attitiude toward learning Zeph, and that will serve you well. Ultimately, you are your only "teacher", for only you can feel what you are doing in the swing. It does take committment and hard work, but the work is much more beneficial if you work smart as well as hard.

It all starts in the mind . As an example, contemplate your last sentence highlighted above. I understand what you are saying as a level of progression, but WONDERING is no cause to celebrate. Keep the champagne on ice for a while and pop the cork only when you KNOW why a shot was good or bad. See the difference? It is a matter of being clear and precise with your goals. Until you can afford to have your own coach tag along and give you feedback on your shots, you'll need to learn to do that yourself, and IMO should be an early goal as it is part of the mental concept of golf which preceeds action. Let's go to the other statement I have highlighted. There are different schools of thought on this, so take it for what it is worth. In my view, the hips are the last thing a learner should be thinking about. The best way to learn how the hips function in the swing is to leave them alone and FEEL how they work due to other forces being applied to them. They will work just fine if you allow them to. This is part of working smart. Why make the learning process more complicated when it is complicated enough as it is? The knees control the hips in the golf swing. Think of building the swing from the ground up. If you start with your knees well flexed with the weight on the insides of the feet and leave them there, then just simply rotate the torso, the hips will remain level and leveraged, poised to return square then clear precisely at the right time doing nothing to make them do so. The key is remaining leveraged with the inside of your right foot serving as the fulcrum. Keep the knees flexed the same as at address and the hips will remain level. As you change direction of the torso, you will then feel the hips "squeeze" around toward the target. But there is the other end of the body to consider. Note from your videos how your head is changing level throughout the swing; waste of energy. The head should be over the inside of the right thigh at the top but remain the same distance from the ground. It is the coil of the swing which creates compression in the body. The leverage knee contains the lateral property of that compression and the head contains the vertical property. When you learn to use that dynamic you have just created a tailwind for yourself. There is a lot more I could comment on, but this is the key start IMO. Apply yourself and I am confident you will emerge a much better swinger in the sping.

Yea, I understand what you mean. What I'm trying to point out is that my hips have always been over-rotating, so in the beginning I may have to give some thought to not letting them turn as much. If I only think of turning my torso, the hips will follow since I've done it a couple thousand times by now. I don't mean I shold be thinking of them all the time, but just not forgetting them early on. When I can turn my torso, not thinking about hips or knees, and they work like they should, then I've accomplished something.

I've studied my head too, it looks like the head movement is a result of the wrong spine movement. If I can keep the spine angle the same throughout the swing and just let the head follow slightly backwards to where it's above the inner right thigh, I think should be good.

I agree, I may have tried to fix something at the end of the swing without thinking about the fundamentals first, but I've learned now that I must start at the beginning, working only on what I've learned so far. I'll try not to think about everything, but as for now, I'm working on:

1: Flexed knees at adress, keeping them flexed to the top of the backswing. 2: Not over-rotating my hips (again, I'll try to to think of it, but that doesn't mean I don't work on it ). 3: Keeping my spine angle straight at about 60º and holding it that way. At least until the top of the backswing for now. 4: The weight being on the inside of my right foot came naturally when I resisted and turned correctly, I think that'll work itself out. And, one more time, I won't try to fix everything at once. I'll rig up my camera, work on one or two things at the time. They are all part of the set-up and backswing, so they influence eachother all the time. If I can get the three most imporant things in place; knee flex (higher spine angle), resistance in hips and keeping the same angle on the torso, it's a good start. Feel like I'm repeating myself here, so I'll leave it at this. Going for my 18 holes now, I won't be able to stop thinking about this, so it'll be interesting to see how the day turns out. Thanks alot for your help so far Mr. Wedge, you make very good points and have given me lots to work on. Especially the part of not overthinking it, just doing it, I'll do my best.

I won't be long now, but I had to thank you for the help so far. I worked on my spine angle and resistance in the hips today, my swing was much more reliable, I had a couple of hits with open clubface and some where I was topping the ball, but it was much better than before. It's not fixed or anything, but those small changes made a huge change in my scoring. Even with 4 holes with 0 pts i ended up with 42 points and dropped to 20.1 in hcp. I also barely made below 100 with 99 shots. I could've scraped off 3-4 more by holing out when I was outside point range on those 4 holes, but that didn't matter.

It wasn't totally reliable, I still got work to do, but it was much more reliable than before.

Stable legs help control both hip rotation and spine angle. And Zeph, maintaining spine angle just through the top isn't good enough. The most common problem there is losing it just before impact, which causes you to get "stuck", preventing a free release (which you are doing in the downrange view. See how you "stand up" and your hips move toward the ball just before impact?). These are balance issues which originate in your setup position and your mental concept of the swing.

The point here Zeph is why work on bits and pieces? Why not learn what the basic total swing is and rehearse THAT this winter? Not to throw shock waves at you, but this idea of hitting thousands of balls while making mistakes just drives me nuts. The main thing you are doing is ingraining faulty moves which will be so difficult to overcome later. So you work on a couple of things and maybe get them right; maybe you don't. In the meantime, the things not done right are getting worse, muscles being built to move in the wrong direction, and this doesn't take into account it is all interrelated. If the legs are malfunctioning, it is impossible to develop the proper feels in the upper body and vice versa. If the setup is off (it is), working on maintaining spine angle is futile. If your swing radius is inconsistent (it is), spine angle and leg action will give you fits. Most importantly, if your mental concept is incomplete or fuzzy (it is), you are throwing your learning up in the air hoping to chance upon discovering a feel that works then remembering that feel which you likely won't be able to because you have so many erroneous feels competing with it.

I am not saying you cannot learn the way you go. I am saying you are likely setting the stage for a very long and frustrating journey when it needn't be so. Make the investment and find a good teacher. You have the will and the committment. The returns on your investment will pay enourmous dividends.

Another one of my pet peaves is what I call Viable Range of Motion (VROM). If that were considered PRIOR to even touching a club, most people would have a far easier time learning how to swing with accurate authority. It is one of the key reasons learning the swing is so much more difficult than it need be. I will be posting an essay on that topic over at Swing Acadamy in the next week or so if you are interested.

You make perfect sense, yet again. I was thinking that maybe working on too many things at the same time would make it harder, but you got some very good points with learning mistakes.

I don't have lots of offers nearby when it comes to teaching. If I had, I'd be using them, but I live in the outskirts of this country and would have to travel a lot if I was to have a teacher. Not sure if they got that much lessons during the winter either. Next year I'm moving to a city with pros available, I will definately be looking for some help then.
Until then I guess my video camera is my best teacher.

If I can get the whole swing right at some point and keep doing it until it's made automatic, it sure will be much easier than going about this one step at the time. I was just worried it would be too much to take in at once.

During the round yesterday I felt some things that worked and some that didn't, especially the part after impact, follow through, was not how it should. I have never heard about VROM before, I will definately be interested in reading about it.

I'll try to get a video up with some of the tips I've got so far, analyzing them, and repeat. That's probably the best way for my swing to improve at this time, by keeping track of how my swing is progressing visually. I won't be much at the range, but that's probably for the better so I don't think too much about ball flight, as I don't expect it to be perfect. Now you'll probably tell me I should work on ball flight and hits at the same time as everything else, but as soon as the ball machine is shut down at my local range I won't have that option anymore.

I don't have those huge mirrors, but I've got a video camera and a couple of old TVs, I can set them up so I can watch my swing while I am swinging. It'll probably be better than a mirror since I can move both TV and camera around as I like.

My mental concept is fuzzy for sure, I've never worked on my swing like this before.
I got my first club for x-mas 6-7 years ago. Got the green card 3-4 years ago after 2 lessons where we learned how to swing the club. After that I've had 2 20 minutes lessons, the rest of my swing is made up by golf DVDs and internet tips. Got my hcp last fall and has progressed from hcp 36 to 20 this year. Until now, I've been able to play with my flaws and errors, if I wan't to get lower at this point, I'll have to re-think everything. That is also my goal now.

So, if I understand you correctly, I should practice for a perfect swing immediately and take it from there, starting with the thoughts in my head first. I wish I could get lessons, but that's not possible, so I'll just have to rely on myself and a camera.

I'm not completely shure how I should go about changing how I think about the swing. Changing a part of it and get a new physical feeling is OK, but the mind responds to physical feelings feedback. If you've got a good idea on this with your VROM thing, it will indeed be interesting to read. At this moment I got no clue how to correct my swing just by thinking different.

No, no more knuckleballs Zeph, but watch out, here comes a hanging curve. Watching yourself in mirrors and monitors does not teach you to SWING. It teaches you to place the club in a predetermined position. It will frustrate you because you will be depending upon the small muscles of the hands and arms to develop feel. Once again, not saying you can't learn that way, it is just a very hard way to learn. Golf is a game of feel. When you are on the course, that is all you have really. There are no monitors to check or coaches to give you feedback. Feel must be educated however, as you suggest. You may be asking yourself about now, "What does Mr.Wedge want me to do, put my clubs away?" If you have asked yourself that question, the answer is yes. The best way to learn how to swing IMO is to spend a period of time developing mental concept and preparing the body with feel development as well as golf conditioning prior to touching the club. Radical? Yes. But ask yourself WHY it takes years to learn and why so many never learn. Check for a PM.

Video and the internet opens a whole new arena in the area of golf swing learning as you mentioned in a previous post. It is simply a matter of HOW it is used.

Hey, I recognize that swing (except I haven't been able to rotate that much in 15 years . . .).

I agree with the others, as incongruous as it may seem, what goes up, must come down, i.e., your backswing DOES affect your downswing.

The simple thing is on setup, too much forward press. The shaft should point at your zipper.

Taking the club back way too far inside, which leads to across the line at the top, which causes your over the top move on the transition.

I only know this because it's what I've been fighting for 20 years.

And I don't think your hips are too open at impact at all.

Meh...this game is hard.

How can the shaft point at my zipper when the ball is placed left of the zipper and the club designed to point left of the ball?