? best bounce loft combo/technique for hard/heavy sand

lowest bounce seems to be 6 ---- anyone got magic tip to get up high from hard base ( my wedges bounce into back of ball) or heavy soft damp sand that nearly breaks your wrists ---- to very small greens with high trap faces

Although a 'lob' wedge can be difficult to hit, it sounds like this is a good spot for a 58* or 60* lob wedge with a mid bounce. Perhaps something with 8-10* of bounce would be good. I don't think you would want less bounce than that for even those kind of conditions in bunker. There are some wedges now that give you the ability to have low bounce when square but are designed to allow you to add significant bounce when clubface is opened up (see Solus wedge as an example of this). If you went with something like that you might be able to either go with less loft (56* maybe) or less bounce (maybe as low as 6*).

One thing you can do to counter the higher bounce on some wedges is to put the ball back in your stance a little bit and hit down on the ball a little more - this swing will definitely reduce the effective bounce of wedge, but if the traps have high faces you would need more loft to get out (probably 58-60*).

many thanks for advice --- why are lob wedges harder to hit btw

I'd like to second PiKapp's advice - this sounds like the perfect place for a 60* LW with 8* bounce.

Regarding LW difficulty - in general there is a point for every golfer where you get enough loft that good contact becomes difficult. Imagine a club with loft of 89* - there is almost no 'face to aim at' as it is almost all tilted back. Many golfers find that things get hard to control at around 60*. But out of the sand things actually get easier in that respect as all you are trying to do is 'shove some sand into the ball". dave

all very useful---- although I have had some good results using pw square on. re all suggestions do you play with open face and stance and is same club config and method for both sand types

Please don't ask that question again! We had a pretty contentious discussion a couple weeks ago...

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19060

very interesting I didn't know of this thread. Not sure I follow all the math. Not sure it makes 60 any harder out of sand though. In my case I'm sure its all about bounce

I used to always play with open face, but I've one to more of a square face method out of bunkers recently. It's a method endorsed by Stan Utley (a PGA tour player and short game teacher who is really respected). i find it easier to hit consistently this way. In the case of your issues with firm sand this method might work well for you as well (opening clubface increases the bounce).

Different types of sand often require a different stance, club or swing. Out of firm sand I've always found it easier to use square face and hit much closer to the ball (and for really firm sand I'll even try to hit ball first like a fairway shot). Because of square face the ball will come out a little lower than an open faced shot, so for deep bunker I use my 58*. For softer sand I usually still play with square face, but do hit 1-2 inches behind ball. If it's really soft sand I will use my wedge with more bounce and open the clubface (to create more bounce). When it comes right down to it it's about trying different things to see what works for you.

A teaching pro that I have worked with for some time is a very good sand player (even by professional standards) and is a strong advocate of playing typical sand shots with a square, rather than very open, clubface.

I ended up with a moderately open, rather than severely open, face as my starting point - what works for me. dave

I completely agree...also an Utley player...I used to (and still do I guess) play a lot of Muni-type courses that put no effort into maintaining their traps. Sometimes you go in there and it is like a sprinkling of sand over hard pan. I actually just had this exact shot my last round. For that shot I completely forgot that I was in sand and played it like a pitch shot. Still a tough shot, but you can get out of a lot of New England muni course sand traps this way.

How do you play a square face out of a greenside bunker? Usually these are pretty deep and I have to open the face quite a lot to get the ball up.

If you use a 60* wedge, a square face can handle the majority of greenside bunker shots, but not all. I ended up playing with an almost square clubface, but I view that as mostly a matter of personal preference rather than "right or wrong".

dave