Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
  • entries
    57
  • comments
    772
  • views
    41,806

A Little Goat Humping Not Always Bad


A little early extension - "goat humping" - isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Justin Rose with a mid-iron:

Analyzr Image Export 50%.jpg

Zach Johnson with a Hybrid:

Analyzr Image Export2 50%.jpg

Charley Hoffman with a hybrid:

Analyzr Image Export3 50%.jpg

Tiger with a Driver:

Analyzr Image Export4 50%.jpg

Rory hitting an iron:

Analyzr Image Export5 50%.jpg

Goat humping goes awry when:

  • It becomes excessive.
  • It prevents the hips and torso from opening up at the proper rates.

But no, your hips and head do not need to stay absolutely flush against their "walls."

  • Upvote 1

5 Comments


Recommended Comments

coachjimsc

Posted

You posted this just to make me feel better didn't you? 

I am considering changing my name to "Goathumpjimsc"! ;-)

  • Moderator
nevets88

Posted

There's just your head coming "off the wall", just your derriere, and both head and derriere. Are the three about the same? 

  • Moderator
billchao

Posted

A well-timed entry for me. I started wondering about this in my own swing.

Though TBH I already knew the answer, but this helps reinforce it and keep me from working on something stupid and unnecessary.

bm85

Posted

Thanks for this!

It was one of those things that was cloudy for me, because 1.) Seems like I hit the ball great lately, and 2.) my goat was a little bit humped.

Only solution was to exaggerate sucking my left hip back on the down swing (often pulling my head with it), or changing my back swing entirely which I didn't like the idea of, having worked on it now for a solid year (I prefer modifying at this point, not going full tabula rasa). 

  • Administrator
iacas

Posted

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

There's just your head coming "off the wall", just your derriere, and both head and derriere. Are the three about the same? 

No. The head alone would generally be the "better" of the set.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

A well-timed entry for me. I started wondering about this in my own swing.

Though TBH I already knew the answer, but this helps reinforce it and keep me from working on something stupid and unnecessary.

Yeah. A lot of golfers have a little of this.

2 hours ago, bm85 said:

It was one of those things that was cloudy for me, because 1.) Seems like I hit the ball great lately, and 2.) my goat was a little bit humped.

Only solution was to exaggerate sucking my left hip back on the down swing (often pulling my head with it), or changing my back swing entirely which I didn't like the idea of, having worked on it now for a solid year (I prefer modifying at this point, not going full tabula rasa). 

Glad it could help!

  • Upvote 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Blog Entries

  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.