Jump to content
IGNORED

Unplayable Combined with OB - Rule 19.2 Question


StuM
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have a question on Relief for unplayable combined with OB Fence.  A couple weeks ago my approach shot went long of the green stopping @ 6 inches short of a boundary fence.  I know there is no free relief from the fence and was considering taking an unplayable.  I know I could take "Stroke & Distance" but did not want to do that (I was behind a tree to begin with and was shocked I got it near the green).  I could not take "Back-on-the line" since that would put me OB (and in even more peril).  My question is with "Lateral Relief".  The pic below is the green in question and you can see a portion of a red line which is the OB Fence.  The pin was in the far back of the green and my ball was near the fence directly behind the pin.  Taking 2 Clubs in either direction would not have provided relief (no room for backswing) without moving closer to the hole.  By looking at the USGA ROG App I see that the Reference Point for lateral relief is the spot of the original ball, thus I think I am limited to the 2 club-lengths from the original spot.  One of my playing partners says that if the NPR is farther than 2 clubs then I get the 2  club lengths from the NPR which would have been well more than 2 clubs from the original spot of the ball.  I think my only options were play as it lies or Stroke & Distance.  Please help with my understanding on this.  

FYI: I played from the original spot and chopped down on it shooting it forward, rolling down the green (major back to front slope) stopping just off the front of the green for an uphill chip.  

image.thumb.png.088837d3f000c02dc2e732ff29f2e267.pngimage.thumb.png.85461516cde022c8199d61e10a05ca02.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

30 minutes ago, StuM said:

I have a question on Relief for unplayable combined with OB Fence.  A couple weeks ago my approach shot went long of the green stopping @ 6 inches short of a boundary fence.  I know there is no free relief from the fence and was considering taking an unplayable.  I know I could take "Stroke & Distance" but did not want to do that (I was behind a tree to begin with and was shocked I got it near the green).  I could not take "Back-on-the line" since that would put me OB (and in even more peril).  My question is with "Lateral Relief".  The pic below is the green in question and you can see a portion of a red line which is the OB Fence.  The pin was in the far back of the green and my ball was near the fence directly behind the pin.  Taking 2 Clubs in either direction would not have provided relief (no room for backswing) without moving closer to the hole.  By looking at the USGA ROG App I see that the Reference Point for lateral relief is the spot of the original ball, thus I think I am limited to the 2 club-lengths from the original spot.  One of my playing partners says that if the NPR is farther than 2 clubs then I get the 2  club lengths from the NPR which would have been well more than 2 clubs from the original spot of the ball.  I think my only options were play as it lies or Stroke & Distance.  Please help with my understanding on this.  

FYI: I played from the original spot and chopped down on it shooting it forward, rolling down the green (major back to front slope) stopping just off the front of the green for an uphill chip.  

You have it right, your playing partner was wrong.  Using the lateral relief option for unplayable, you get two club lengths from the Reference Point, which is the location of the ball.  The idea of Nearest Point of Complete Relief (NPR) applies to relief under specific rules, which do not include the Unplayable Ball rule.  You can find this in the definition of NPR.  NPR certainly could be more than two clublengths from the original position of the ball, but NPR just doesn't apply in your case.

You playing partner is wrong in another way as well.  NPR requires relief from the specific condition, for instance a cart path.  NPR does NOT mean you get relief from conditions, like the OB fence, from which you wouldn't get relief.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • iacas changed the title to Unplayable Combined with OB - Rule 19.2 Question
7 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

You have it right, your playing partner was wrong.  Using the lateral relief option for unplayable, you get two club lengths from the Reference Point, which is the location of the ball.  The idea of Nearest Point of Complete Relief (NPR) applies to relief under specific rules, which do not include the Unplayable Ball rule.  You can find this in the definition of NPR.  NPR certainly could be more than two clublengths from the original position of the ball, but NPR just doesn't apply in your case.

You playing partner is wrong in another way as well.  NPR requires relief from the specific condition, for instance a cart path.  NPR does NOT mean you get relief from conditions, like the OB fence, from which you wouldn't get relief.

Thanks, I did not know at the time but came home and researched it.  I'll have to take a closer look at NPR as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Yeah, what he said.

I was going to elaborate, but what @DaveP043 said was so concise I'd just muddy the waters.

I'll only reiterate what he said in bullet points:

  • Unplayable lies don't offer "nearest point of relief" (NPR).
  • Your three listed options were correct.
    • Two club lengths, no closer.
    • Back on a line.
    • Stroke and distance (i.e. "replay the shot.")

I will add only this: if you were "behind a tree" originally, the "stroke and distance" option since 2019 provides a relief area, while before 2019 you were to drop as near as possible to the spot where the ball was played from. If the "relief area" (one club length in radius) were to get you out from behind the tree, maybe that was still a good option.

P.S. The NPR, since you posted while I was finishing up the above post, almost always refers to relief "from" something on the course to which you're entitled to free relief. An unplayable lie isn't free relief, and you're not entitled to relief from a boundary fence.

  • Like 2
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...