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Posted
I am happy to discredit the opinion of this pro that the Callaway is crap and can't be hit straight.That is a worthless opinion.It can be hit straight,thats a fact.

Dave, dude, you're still not getting it.

You were the one to first voice the opinion. I "countered" yours with the experiences of some 90+ golfers, as told to me by one of the best club pros and fitters in PA. You've missed the point, and that point was quite simple: you can't disparage the opinions of others while at the same time talking as though yours is golden. It can't and doesn't work that way. So, let's just drop it. I'm lecturing on semantics and reading comprehension at this point, and that's not what this thread is about.
Phil Mickelson amongst others currently use this club.

He really doesn't. He toyed with it earlier this year, but then moved back to his "standard" 3 and 4 woods - by TaylorMade and Titleist.

Look for yourself if you'd like.
Btw,the hybrid you use,I can't hit straight.I hook the TM into next week.But I would never describe it as crap.Its just me that can't hit it.

And I couldn't hit the non-TP model straight either. But, like Dave said, the TP in 8-8 works beautifully.

On a lighter note,and hopefully we can move on,I like you bag and wouldn't mind your opinion on the 905s (did you move from the 983?) and the 680s,particularly if you've hit the 690s.

905S from 983K, 680s after trying the 690s and finding they hit the ball too high.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted
Yep,I'm finding the 690s go high as well,may well give the 680s a whirl.

My only issue was the statement 'the club is crap',which it clearly isn't.Thats an opinion that deserved a counter.But I agree,lets drop it,you have qualified the original statement and I can't argue with 90 players who have crap swings;)

What is the 905 like? I've had an Ignite and didn't get along with the YS-6+ .350 in it,the club was dead as a dormouse.

NC

I tired like hell with the TM but just didn't get along with it.I hit a draw and with that thing it went almost straight left,a bit wierd at first.I may give it another go.The Heavenwood flies too high for use off the tee.Its an arse having to carry a 2 iron as well and dump the lob wedge.

______________
Hogan Grinds 4-PW TLT fit X100 Tour
bent 2* strong
SMT Encore Fuji 26.3 X
Geek DCT 15* Accuflex 80MPT 51Ran Troom Grind 55Rife 2 Bar hybrid


Posted
I'll jump in at this late date to say that the Heavenwoods are an acquired taste. Or, rather, that they work well for some people but not everyone. I can't say what swing characteristics they work best with, but I seem to see "better players" have more luck with them than higher handicappers. I have a friend who plays to a 5 and has two of them in the bag. He uses them like deadly weapons, having replaced his 3-wood and 2-iron with them. This is likely why some of the tour pros have had success with them. They don't hit the ball overly high, and you can work the ball with them. They aren't especially point-and-shoot, and they aren't hook machines (like lots of hybrids).

I, on the other hand, have never had trouble hitting a Callaway club. Until, that is, the Heavenwoods. They just don't work as well for me as some other hybrids (like my Sonartec Md). I'd take a Big Bertha FW of a comparable loft over a Heavenwood hybrid everyday. I think I do better with a more iron-like hybrid, and the Heavenwoods look like small woods to me. Different folks, different strokes.

in the bag today:
Driver: TaylorMade R9 10.5° (Fujikura Motore 65 stiff)
3-wood: Tour Edge Exotics XCG (Aldila DVS Fairway 75 stiff)
hybrid: Sonartec Md 21° (UST Proforce V2 Hybrid 85 stiff)
4-PW: Titleist 755 (Titleist TriSpec Regular)Wedges: Titleist Vokey Design 252.08 bent to 50.5° (Oil...

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Posted
Yes,good post.Hybrids definately need extensive testing.I regard myself as a resonable striker of a golf ball,but when testing abiut 15 hybrids they were going pretty much everywhere.Yet I would test some 2 irons and the only variation was height.

The moral of the story is the right hybrid in the right hands is a deadly weapon as you say,the wrong one is just deadly.

______________
Hogan Grinds 4-PW TLT fit X100 Tour
bent 2* strong
SMT Encore Fuji 26.3 X
Geek DCT 15* Accuflex 80MPT 51Ran Troom Grind 55Rife 2 Bar hybrid


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    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
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