My Swing (pinseekingdreams)

[pinseekingdreams]

I've been Playing Golf for: 10ish years.

My current handicap index or average score is: Handicap is 2.1, average tournament scores 76-81
My typical ball flight is: Pull cut
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: My "big" round blow up miss is a massive push slice (only happens with my driver). I'd also like to get rid of the steepness of my swing.

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Videos: 

This is a my normal swing, I know I'm very steep in my downswing and I'm hitting a massive pull.

There's also other crap I want to fix, mainly in my downswing my lead arm breaks down and I think I flip at the ball a bit but that I think is for later. I'm headed to the range in a 10 mins so I'll try to get so me good face on shots.

Also see how in my slow swings you can see the ball for longer, it doesn't disappear to the right behind my body, that's the "look" I want. I want when I hit the ball to be able to see the ball flight in the air for a while.

I also know in my slow swing I hit a straight slice, I think this is because I'm not used to having to close the face much with my old swing? I know when I get steep, I can't really release the club that much because I'll just hit a huge pull hook, so I hold off. Now that I am coming in shallow though, since I am not used to getting a full release, I have my clubface way open. The other idea I have is that my handpath is too "out" in my downswing but I'm not sure, still messing with it.

 

Any advice to help expedite my learning process would be greatly appreciated.

Edited May 26, 2024 by pinseekingdreams

[pinseekingdreams]

Got some really good footage, (sync'd up front view + down the line view), I think my DTL camera angle is a titch off but I think it works.

One thing I noticed is I really lack shaft lean at address and I absolutely HATE how my lead arm breaks down completely in my down swing, not sure how to fix that.

Here's the vids.
 

 

 

Posted a lot of swings but wanted to give a good idea of what my swing looks like. I tried to create my miss on the course in the last video and it's close, but usually the ball starts way left. I notice my big push slice with my driver usually happens end of round, so maybe I just get tired and can't time my swing properly.

I added the rehersal and less than 100% power swings because that's usually how I practice right now, I do a lot of slow swings, then I watch on video to see what it looks like, and then I just keep doing that.

Btw if I posted too many swings, let me know and I'll post less next time.

Cheers.

Edited May 26, 2024 by pinseekingdreams

[billchao]

It looks to me like you take the club back too flat and then steepen it in transition.

[pinseekingdreams]

26 minutes ago, billchao said:

It looks to me like you take the club back too flat and then steepen it in transition.

I could see that, I know when in my rehearsals my back swing is completely different compared to my actual back swing. I think when I swing very slow, my swing is far more on plane which (probably) makes it easier to swing my downswing on plane too.

[billchao]

24 minutes ago, pinseekingdreams said:

I could see that, I know when in my rehearsals my back swing is completely different compared to my actual back swing. I think when I swing very slow, my swing is far more on plane which (probably) makes it easier to swing my downswing on plane too.

Based on what you wrote in another topic, I think you have a pretty good grasp of what it takes to make mechanical changes. Just keep at it. The only thing I can add is to exaggerate the move more that you're trying to change. If your swing is currently A and you want it to be C, don't swing C at slow motion until you ingrain it because in all likelihood you're going to end up somewhere closer to B. Swing at like G in slow motion to end up at C at full speed. Does that make sense?

[pinseekingdreams]

7 hours ago, billchao said:

Based on what you wrote in another topic, I think you have a pretty good grasp of what it takes to make mechanical changes. Just keep at it. The only thing I can add is to exaggerate the move more that you're trying to change. If your swing is currently A and you want it to be C, don't swing C at slow motion until you ingrain it because in all likelihood you're going to end up somewhere closer to B. Swing at like G in slow motion to end up at C at full speed. Does that make sense?

Yep, this is a good take. Especially because I think it's far easier to feel what your body has to do when you super exaggerate it, compared to what I'm doing.

Appreciate the guidance.

[iacas]

Yeah, I just like to look at one video you feel is representative, so I just grabbed the first one.

You pull your trail elbow much too far around your body. It is over-bent and too far "behind" or "beside" you instead of staying more in front of your chest. Your lead arm is pulled too far across your chest as a result.

[pinseekingdreams]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, I just like to look at one video you feel is representative, so I just grabbed the first one.

You pull your trail elbow much too far around your body. It is over-bent and too far "behind" or "beside" you instead of staying more in front of your chest. Your lead arm is pulled too far across your chest as a result.

Appreciate the response,

I'll post less swings next time.

As far as your diagnosis, I completely agree, I always felt the top of my backswing looked weird and I can why now.

As far as fixing the flaw, should I just try to have my trail arm stay in front of my chest more at the top, or is there something in my backswing that causes my trail arm to get into that position?

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, pinseekingdreams said:

Appreciate the response,

I'll post less swings next time.

As far as your diagnosis, I completely agree, I always felt the top of my backswing looked weird and I can why now.

As far as fixing the flaw, should I just try to have my trail arm stay in front of my chest more at the top, or is there something in my backswing that causes my trail arm to get into that position?

Realize that your arms generally work up and down, not around, and make some swings where they just work up your chest toward your left collarbone or something.

[pinseekingdreams]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

Realize that your arms generally work up and down, not around, and make some swings where they just work up your chest toward your left collarbone or something.

Makes sense, I'll work on it and post an update in a few days.

Edited May 27, 2024 by pinseekingdreams

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, pinseekingdreams said:

Makes sense, I'll work on it and post an update in a few days.

FWIW, it's going to take months if not years.

[pinseekingdreams]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

FWIW, it's going to take months if not years.

That's fine, it's something I need to fix anyway. I'd like to eventually play in bigger events, and see where my game can go, so if this is what I have to do then so be it.

[Zeph]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Realize that your arms generally work up and down, not around, and make some swings where they just work up your chest toward your left collarbone or something.

That's a good thought. Is the back elbow bending the only part that should move the hands off the middle of the chest?

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Zeph said:

That's a good thought. Is the back elbow bending the only part that should move the hands off the middle of the chest?

The trail arm bending moves the hands because that side of the triangle shortens a bit,and the right upper arm does move "around" a bit (~15°?), not the amount you see from many where it is almost 90° "beside" them.

[pinseekingdreams]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Realize that your arms generally work up and down, not around, and make some swings where they just work up your chest toward your left collarbone or something.

Are the slow swings more in line with the correct movement, or is the trail arm still not working properly?

And what do you mean by my trail arm being too bent? I understand what you mean by behind me, but I'm not sure I understand what "bent" means.
 

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by pinseekingdreams

[billchao]

1 hour ago, pinseekingdreams said:

Are the slow swings more in line with the correct movement, or is the trail arm still not working properly?

No, it's still too far behind you and bent too much.

1 hour ago, pinseekingdreams said:

And what do you mean by my trail arm being too bent? I understand what you mean by behind me, but I'm not sure I understand what "bent" means.

Your arm is bent at the elbow too much. It doesn't really need to go past 90° and often times that means feeling like it's bent significantly less than that.

[pinseekingdreams]

I figured I'd post an update.

I've been diving like crazy into the golf swing, found some archives of top teaching professionals who have recorded their lessons and some videos of them explaining concepts to students. I'm learning a ton and finally feel like I am starting to begin to understand how the swing works.

One of the main things I've "picked up" is that basically what you do in your swing is a reaction to how the golf club is moving AND how your body moves.

I'll use a simple example of what I mean.

Take a club and address an imaginary ball.

Now if you're right handed, bend your side to the right.

Now look at the club face.

See how the club face opens?

So now let's say in your downswing you have too much right side tilt.

Well that's going to cause the path of your club to kick out to the right (right of target) and you'd swing from inside - out.

Now most people (and this is how I thought before too) would go, okay I clearly have too much tilt in my downswing, so I need to fix that.

But what they don't realize, is there's a reason why you have too much side tilt. There's a "root" cause, and that root is probably located somewhere in your backswing.

Now for the sake of this post, I've oversimplified things a lot, but this is the general idea.

You can't just go "hey I'm going to work on getting rid of having too much tilt." WITHOUT fixing the root cause.

And the really cool thing is, sometimes one major flaw, causes a bunch of others. So when you fix that one major flaw, the rest of your swing will start to self-correct.

____

Now what does this mean with my swing?

Well I think there's things I'm doing in my backswing, that are setting up my ultra steep move and I think there are things that I do right when I do my takeaway that set up my trail arm getting stuck way behind me at the top of the swing.

Going back to when I was a kid, I was always told "straight back" for the takeaway, which led to me swinging back with a super closed clubface, and I suspect this is where my "flaw" in my backswing stemmed from.

So what is this flaw?

I'm not 100% sure.

I think I get too much hand-depth too early in my backswing, and then at around p43 (lead arm parallel) my hands are already really deep behind me, so much that I don't think they can really go further behind me, now of course I know I can't swing a club from that position, so then I lift my arms up to get some distance from the ball so I can start my downswing.

And then when I lift up my arms, to create this space, the force on my shaft is now working towards the ball and because of the shaft working towards the ball, I have no choice but to come steep.

Another aspect too, I think I have a very late wrist cock. Going back to when I was a kid, I was taught straight back, straight through (with no wrist cock). So now looking at my current swing, I think my wrist cock is so late, that I actually create it through the trail arm moving back behind me at around p3ish.

This is basically where my "knowledge" ends, I know there are some PGA tour players that have a late wrist cock that do well (I think Bryosn is one of them), but I also think Bryson has a far less inside takeaway and his set-up is very different. But my late wrist cock might just be the result of my super inside takeaway.

I have to go the range + do some mirror work to try to get a better understanding of my movements + test out what I said above.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, pinseekingdreams said:

I've been diving like crazy into the golf swing

If you want to do that for the fun of it, then by all means go ahead. But, for example, I've been studying the golf swing for 15 years. It's not your full-time job, so you may be better off trusting someone whose job it is to assess things properly.

6 hours ago, pinseekingdreams said:

Going back to when I was a kid, I was always told "straight back" for the takeaway, which led to me swinging back with a super closed clubface, and I suspect this is where my "flaw" in my backswing stemmed from.

Yeah, you don't do that:

It's pretty simple, really:

• You fold your left wrist back instead of hinging properly (around rather than up).
• You bend your left elbow too soon and too much, while also moving the elbow "around" rather than "up" (around rather than up).

You need to learn what "up" feels like and to greatly limit the "around."

That's it.