Differential vs Course Handicap

[iacas]

1 hour ago, wacker said:

However, what I don't like is that a handicap can rise so quickly based on a short spell of bad form. Earlier in the year I went 18 on the course to 22 in a period of about 5 weeks after putting in about 15 cards casual play.

a) 15 rounds isn't what many would call "quickly."

b) The WHS system has soft and hard caps. If your index went up that much over 15 rounds, it was a pretty bad stretch of golf. Soft cap is at 3, hard cap at 5.

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

a) 15 rounds isn't what many would call "quickly."

He's from the UK. Under the old UK system, a handicap going up 4 whole strokes would take a long time. Only changes in competition rounds, of which you might have 12-15 per year. Then from 18 to 22 you'd have to shoot more than 4 shots worse than your handicap (up to 20) and 5 shots worse (above 20 to 22). Any single round that's better than your handicap brings you down by 0.3 (under 20) or 0.4 (20 or above) per shot better than your handicap. Even if you played absolute rubbish every time you go out, it would take you upwards of 2 years to go up by 4 strokes. On that basis, 5 weeks is extremely quick.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

He's from the UK. Under the old UK system, a handicap going up 4 whole strokes would take a long time.

I know, and so he's got to consider that if his handicap went up FOUR strokes, it was through play likely quite a bit worse than even that, because that's into the soft cap, and so… keeping his handicap down at only 1 or 1.5 higher would not represent how he had been playing over 15+ rounds.

14 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

On that basis, 5 weeks is extremely quick.

Again, it's still fifteen rounds. And some really bad scoring for 15 rounds.

He has an "outdated" definition of "quick." It is the way it is because of reasons, and my suggestion is that he consider them. Not just react with "this isn't like how it used to be…".

[Ty_Webb]

32 minutes ago, iacas said:

I know, and so he's got to consider that if his handicap went up FOUR strokes, it was through play likely quite a bit worse than even that, because that's into the soft cap, and so… keeping his handicap down at only 1 or 1.5 higher would not represent how he had been playing over 15+ rounds.

Again, it's still fifteen rounds. And some really bad scoring for 15 rounds.

He has an "outdated" definition of "quick." It is the way it is because of reasons, and my suggestion is that he consider them. Not just react with "this isn't like how it used to be…".

I agree. One of the main problems with the old UK system was how slow it was to catch up to changes in ability. The WHS reacts far more quickly in both directions too (maybe different at 20+ handicap, but below 5 it for sure does). 

[wacker]

On 11/6/2025 at 2:05 PM, iacas said:

a) 15 rounds isn't what many would call "quickly."

b) The WHS system has soft and hard caps. If your index went up that much over 15 rounds, it was a pretty bad stretch of golf. Soft cap is at 3, hard cap at 5.

Under the previous system in the UK the very most I would have got back is 1.5, but in reality a single shot. Under the new system I got back 4 shots, I think that's crazy.

It should be remembered that bad form is generally temporary, and the fact my handicap has now dropped 5 shots proves that. 

Edited November 9 by wacker

[iacas]

1 hour ago, wacker said:

Under the previous system in the UK the very most I would have got back is 1.5, but in reality a single shot. Under the new system I got back 4 shots, I think that's crazy.

It should be remembered that bad form is generally temporary, and the fact my handicap has now dropped 5 shots proves that. 

It wasn’t a single shot. It was 15 rounds.

It goes up slower than it can go down, too. It can go down more quickly. There’s not a cap on downward movement and there is still an adjustment for exceptional rounds.

You may be coming from a place of assumption that the old system was inherently more right or better.

Also, bad form can be temporary and have almost no effect on someone’s handicap if it’s 6 to 10 rounds. When you get out to 15+ Rounds, it’s hard to call that “temporary.” It’s quite likely you play a lot more than most people.

[wacker]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

It wasn’t a single shot. It was 15 rounds.

It goes up slower than it can go down, too. It can go down more quickly. There’s not a cap on downward movement and there is still an adjustment for exceptional rounds.

You may be coming from a place of assumption that the old system was inherently more right or better.

Also, bad form can be temporary and have almost no effect on someone’s handicap if it’s 6 to 10 rounds. When you get out to 15+ Rounds, it’s hard to call that “temporary.” It’s quite likely you play a lot more than most people.

I am from the UK, and our previous system didn't allow a golfer to gain any more than 0.1 back on a handicap regardless of how bad the round was. This prevented a temporary drop of form to raise a handicap by an excess amount. I am aware this has been different in the U.S as it is in various other countries. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I can assure you that amongst ALL the guys I play with we see elements of the present system to be a step backwards

[iacas]

1 hour ago, wacker said:

I am from the UK, and our previous system didn't allow a golfer to gain any more than 0.1 back on a handicap regardless of how bad the round was.

I know. Please read what I wrote.

1 hour ago, wacker said:

This prevented a temporary drop of form to raise a handicap by an excess amount.

We have slightly different definitions of "temporary" and "drop of form." To get soft capped, you're playing significantly worse for a fairly extended period of time.

1 hour ago, wacker said:

We are all entitled to our opinions, but I can assure you that amongst ALL the guys I play with we see elements of the present system to be a step backwards

You should try to be more open to change. 😄 There are reasons why the UK changed to this form. It was not because the USGA blackmailed them with dirty pictures of UK golfers taking 5 hours to play a round of golf and riding in buggies.

[wacker]

I am not opposed to all the elements of the system. Like I said, I believe playing off of a higher handicap on a harder course is a good idea. I also believe that handicaps dropping quicker is a good idea, because it's an indication of a player's potential. What I am against is the speed a handicap can raise, because in most cases a drop in form is generally temporary. My next two rounds will see my two best scores drop off of the system, so even if I play to handicap, which is very hard this time of year in the UK, my handicap will rise. If it were to just rise by 0.1 that isn't an issue, but the likelihood is  I will get a full shot back

[iacas]

5 hours ago, wacker said:

What I am against is the speed a handicap can raise, because in most cases a drop in form is generally temporary.

I'll say again… you have a different definition of "temporary" and "speed" than I do. For your handicap to go up FOUR shots means you were through the soft cap and approaching the hard cap. If you did it over 15 rounds (leaving five potentially lower scores), then you played REALLY bad golf over that stretch because it's likely that only three or four of the best of those 15 rounds were actually counted, so if the three or four best scores RAISED your handicap five shots (three at 100%, 2 at 50% once you hit the soft cap), then that's some BAD golf over an extended (not temporary) period of time.

And here's the thing… play 15 good rounds, or even just EIGHT, and it'll DROP again, even faster. Handicaps still drop faster than they rise, not only because of the way we calculate it (best 😎 but because of the caps.

5 hours ago, wacker said:

My next two rounds will see my two best scores drop off of the system, so even if I play to handicap, which is very hard this time of year in the UK, my handicap will rise. If it were to just rise by 0.1 that isn't an issue, but the likelihood is I will get a full shot back

Right… it's not like you're not needing the shots. You're playing really badly, and your handicap is still lagging behind your play.

[wacker]

On 11/10/2025 at 1:32 PM, iacas said:

I'll say again… you have a different definition of "temporary" and "speed" than I do. For your handicap to go up FOUR shots means you were through the soft cap and approaching the hard cap. If you did it over 15 rounds (leaving five potentially lower scores), then you played REALLY bad golf over that stretch because it's likely that only three or four of the best of those 15 rounds were actually counted, so if the three or four best scores RAISED your handicap five shots (three at 100%, 2 at 50% once you hit the soft cap), then that's some BAD golf over an extended (not temporary) period of time.

And here's the thing… play 15 good rounds, or even just EIGHT, and it'll DROP again, even faster. Handicaps still drop faster than they rise, not only because of the way we calculate it (best 😎 but because of the caps.

Right… it's not like you're not needing the shots. You're playing really badly, and your handicap is still lagging behind your play.

I think you missed the point. I can play to my present handicap in the next two rounds, in winter condition, yet I am still likely to get a full shot back. Therefore, in theory my present form could be excellent but my handicap still rises. If I were to just get 0.1 back (like the old system) that's arguably acceptable

[iacas]

5 hours ago, wacker said:

I think you missed the point. I can play to my present handicap in the next two rounds, in winter condition, yet I am still likely to get a full shot back. Therefore, in theory my present form could be excellent but my handicap still rises. If I were to just get 0.1 back (like the old system) that's arguably acceptable

To be honest I don't really care about individual one-off sample sizes. You could create all kinds of strange scenarios where a 16 differential when you had a lot of great golf is bumped off by an 18 differential and thus your handicap goes up.

I think mathematically, too, it's really difficult for your handicap to go up one shot by playing to your handicap Let's say that you were a 14 who has now gone to an 18 (which means the best 8 of your last 20 have actually averaged 19, because that additional stroke was credited at 50% once you hit 17). So, to drive your index up the last full shot until you hit the hard cap…:

• Playing to your handicap would be shooting an 18.0 differential.
• For two differentials to boost your handicap by one shot:
  • The rise is capped at 50%
  • It's 2 of 8 rounds that count, so their individual contribution to your index is 0.25
  • This gives us the formula of 1 = 0.25 * 0.5 * x. Solving for x, your two replaced rounds would have to be 8 points shots lower, or 10s.

In other words, in this example, you were a 14.0:

• 10, 10, 14, 14, 16, 16, 16, 16 = 14.0 differential

You're now a soft capped 18.0, keeping the 10s:

• 10, 10, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22 = 19.0 average, for an 18.0 differential

Playing to your handicap is an 18.0, so let's replace the two 10s with two 18s:

• 18, 18, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22 = 21.0 average
• You get the first three at 100%, so 17.0
• The next two come at 50%, so 4 shots (21) becomes 2, and thus 17.0

So, unless you have a situation where the two differentials coming off are about 12 shots worse than the scores you've shot lately (10s -> 22s), and you replace them with 18s… it's really, really difficult for your index to rise a shot in the soft cap phase by playing decent golf.

Even if you replaced the 10 with a 14 - your old index - you'd see this:

• 14, 14, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22 = 160
• 160/8 = 20.0 - You get the 14.0 to 17.0 for free, and then the other three shots are at 50%, so 1.5. You'd be an 18.5.

That's only half a shot. And it'd require you to shoot your old index in amongst a run of 22.0 differentials, and for the oldest two scores to both be 10.0s.

5 hours ago, wacker said:

Therefore, in theory my present form could be excellent but my handicap still rises. If I were to just get 0.1 back (like the old system) that's arguably acceptable

It's highly unlikely. And even if it's an accurate version of what's happening… you're one person. It's one sample point. One data point.

Most people don't go from having 10.0s and then consistently shooting 22.0 differentials for six of their BEST rounds out of the last 18 rounds. Again, I wouldn't call that "temporarily slightly worse form." That's a big difference.

If you want to continue the discussion, please post your handicap record showing the last 40 rounds, scores, ratings, and differentials (or at least 35 to the point where you said you'd played 15 rounds).

[GolfLug]

And here I'm wondering why the dogpile I have accumulated in the last 15 rounds hasn't raised my HCP faster (has gone up by 1.6 shots)...🫤. It seems I keep shooting enough +1/+2 diff rounds once every 4-5 rounds to slow down the increase to a crawl. I think mine is way more likely scenario for the general populous than whatever you have done to make it go up by four shots.

I mean four shots over 15 rounds is some consistently TERRIBLE golf! @wackeryou must play everyday or darn near to think it 'quick'.  

[wacker]

On 11/14/2025 at 5:13 PM, GolfLug said:

And here I'm wondering why the dogpile I have accumulated in the last 15 rounds hasn't raised my HCP faster (has gone up by 1.6 shots)...🫤. It seems I keep shooting enough +1/+2 diff rounds once every 4-5 rounds to slow down the increase to a crawl. I think mine is way more likely scenario for the general populous than whatever you have done to make it go up by four shots.

I mean four shots over 15 rounds is some consistently TERRIBLE golf! @wackeryou must play everyday or darn near to think it 'quick'.  

I did indeed go through a very rough period, although through the summer I dragged it down 5 shots. However, my scenario came true. Yesterday I played a very good round, I was the only person in a 17 man bash who shot under net parr, and therefore took the money. I also got a nearest the pin and a two. It was a good day at the office and I ended up being £40 better off. I woke up this morning, turned on my phone and there was an email telling me my handicap has risen 0.3 and therefore I now get an extra shot on the course. Once again, I know how the system works, but I still think there are elements of it that require addressing 

[Ty_Webb]

3 hours ago, wacker said:

I did indeed go through a very rough period, although through the summer I dragged it down 5 shots. However, my scenario came true. Yesterday I played a very good round, I was the only person in a 17 man bash who shot under net parr, and therefore took the money. I also got a nearest the pin and a two. It was a good day at the office and I ended up being £40 better off. I woke up this morning, turned on my phone and there was an email telling me my handicap has risen 0.3 and therefore I now get an extra shot on the course. Once again, I know how the system works, but I still think there are elements of it that require addressing 

I think this just means that 21 rounds ago you had a better day in the office. That's now history, so your handicap goes up a little. We don't do decimal points of shots, so sometimes 0.3 will change your course handicap and sometimes it won't. You happened to hit two fairly unusual events at the same time and this happens. I find if I have a good round, I watch for when it's going to drop off and when it does I know my handicap is likely to go up unless I have a very good round. Conversely there are days where your 20th score ago was not a good round and then you have a freebie - whatever you shoot today your handicap isn't going to change upwards. So you take the rough with the smooth. 

I've lived under both systems and the new one is so much better at keeping up to date with changes in ability than the old one. That's a good thing.

[wacker]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

I think this just means that 21 rounds ago you had a better day in the office. That's now history, so your handicap goes up a little. We don't do decimal points of shots, so sometimes 0.3 will change your course handicap and sometimes it won't. You happened to hit two fairly unusual events at the same time and this happens. I find if I have a good round, I watch for when it's going to drop off and when it does I know my handicap is likely to go up unless I have a very good round. Conversely there are days where your 20th score ago was not a good round and then you have a freebie - whatever you shoot today your handicap isn't going to change upwards. So you take the rough with the smooth. 

I've lived under both systems and the new one is so much better at keeping up to date with changes in ability than the old one. That's a good thing.

I believe a hybrid between the two would be perfect. Allow the handicap to drop quickly, but only allow it to rise by 0.1% at a time. This would mean golfers have a handicap that reflects their ability and potential, not current form. 

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, wacker said:

Allow the handicap to drop quickly, but only allow it to rise by 0.1% at a time. This would mean golfers have a handicap that reflects their ability and potential, not current form. 

Nah

To me you want the handicap system to be a validation of how you feel about your golf game on a specific day. That isn't what it is. So, get over it.

I don't even monitor my handicap. If I need to use it, it is there. I know generally where I want to shoot pending the course, and I just try to do my best that day. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, wacker said:

I believe a hybrid between the two would be perfect. Allow the handicap to drop quickly, but only allow it to rise by 0.1% at a time. This would mean golfers have a handicap that reflects their ability and potential, not current form. 

0.1%? I'll assume you meant 0.1 strokes, which is almost as silly, but not as silly as 0.1%.

Please post your handicap record and your last 25 scores and their ratings and differentials. You're a one-off case: you play frequently, and you played really poorly for a decent stretch (almost 20 rounds).