Am I Playing This Hole Right?

[Seeking70s]

This is hole 2 at an area 9 hole track, Meadowlark Golf Course.

It's a 414 yard par 4 which doglegs dogleg right. The pinched space between the water and the trees right is ~50-55 yards.

The relevant detail not captured in the image below: the ground slopes down towards the water from all directions, which takes Driver out of play (~270 yards to the water edge but effectively much shorter - have tried and ended up dropping multiple times).

Currently, I try to hit a shot that ends up going 240 yards at the white marker pictured and accept that at my skill level (~5 handicap) this is a par 4.5+ and double bogey avoidance is what's most important.

Even with this strategy, I often end up at an angle where one of the small straggling trees or the larger treeline past the water makes a near-GIR difficult and I have to hit a fairly conservative 2nd shot.

Just making sure I'm not missing something here.

[Ty_Webb]

How are the trees on the right? Is that lost ball jungle or findable but difficult (low canopy) or findable and playable (high canopy)? My initial impression from the picture is you're aiming 70+ yards away from the trees on the right - can you play closer to them at the 240 range? Or is the slope taking the ball over to the white marker anyway?

[saevel25]

I don't know what your shot zone is. If those trees just before the water are tall enough to impact your 2nd shot, this is just a tough hole. 

I suspect this hole plays much easier for a fader of the ball. They can then hug the tree line more and play against the slope to the water. 55 yards wide is wide enough to hit driver in my opinion. If the golfer can only draw the ball, then maybe just lay it back enough to have sub 200 in. If you hit it right, they should be able to draw it towards the green. 

It might not be too bad to press those trees before the water. A 160 yard low punch shot that runs up to the green isn't that difficult of a shot. Compared to a 200+ yard 2nd shot? 

 

[Seeking70s]

29 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

How are the trees on the right? Is that lost ball jungle or findable but difficult (low canopy) or findable and playable (high canopy)? My initial impression from the picture is you're aiming 70+ yards away from the trees on the right - can you play closer to them at the 240 range? Or is the slope taking the ball over to the white marker anyway?

They are very high - lost ball jungle. Could probably aim slightly more to the right though, valid point.

The trees along the right do come into play there on your tee shot if you take it too far right and don't launch it high.

28 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I don't know what your shot zone is. If those trees just before the water are tall enough to impact your 2nd shot, this is just a tough hole. 

I suspect this hole plays much easier for a fader of the ball. They can then hug the tree line more and play against the slope to the water. 55 yards wide is wide enough to hit driver in my opinion. If the golfer can only draw the ball, then maybe just lay it back enough to have sub 200 in. If you hit it right, they should be able to draw it towards the green. 

It might not be too bad to press those trees before the water. A 160 yard low punch shot that runs up to the green isn't that difficult of a shot. Compared to a 200+ yard 2nd shot? 

 

I am a push-drawer with a moderate to high amount of curvature (working on tightening that up). Depending on where exactly my ball ends up, those trees can affect the 2nd shot.

Another good idea here though, could take 1 more club up and really try to get as close to the water as possible (safely). 

[Ty_Webb]

Based on what you said, I would think the 240 shot landing about 35-40 yards left of the right trees would be a good intent from the tee. That should leave you around 175 in. On the days when you are rightish of that or at least not a lot left of it, you should have a clear shot to the green. On the days when those trees are in the way and you can't go at the green, play as close as you can and get it somewhere up near the green and make either 4 the hard way or 5 (hopefully not more than that). I doubt you'll lose much to the field playing like that.

[WUTiger]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I don't know what your shot zone is. If those trees just before the water are tall enough to impact your 2nd shot, this is just a tough hole. 

I suspect this hole plays much easier for a fader of the ball. They can then hug the tree line more and play against the slope to the water. 55 yards wide is wide enough to hit driver in my opinion.

If you fade a fairway wood, the ball would be working left to right against the slope down to the water. This would settle down more toward middle of fairway.

Then 414 - 240 = 174 yards left. This is maybe a 6i or 7i approach for someone who hits a driver 270 yards. Should be manageable.

For most golfers, a fairway wood allows more control than a driver. If you just practice a fade tee shot with a FW, I think you can pull it off.

[saevel25]

Just now, WUTiger said:

For most golfers, a fairway wood allows more control than a driver. If you just practice a fade tee shot with a FW, I think you can pull it off.

I disagree. I don't think it is that noticeable. 

There isn't that much of a fundamental difference between a driver and 3-wood to say it is more controllable. If both 3-wood and driver are 10 degrees offline, and you hit your driver at 275 yards and 3-wood at 250 yards, then you are 48 yards offline with the driver and 44 yards offline with the 3-wood. Maybe with other things like higher loft and higher spin it curves a bit less (less axis tilt). Even if it is 10 yards less offline, not sure that is that noticeable. 

If a hole is that tight, and the shot zone is extending significantly into the trees, good luck? If it is a 415+ yard par 4, take your chances or play it as a three-shot hole and try to get up and down for par? 

 

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I disagree. I don't think it is that noticeable. 

There isn't that much of a fundamental difference between a driver and 3-wood to say it is more controllable. If both 3-wood and driver are 10 degrees offline, and you hit your driver at 275 yards and 3-wood at 250 yards, then you are 48 yards offline with the driver and 44 yards offline with the 3-wood. Maybe with other things like higher loft and higher spin it curves a bit less (less axis tilt). Even if it is 10 yards less offline, not sure that is that noticeable. 

If a hole is that tight, and the shot zone is extending significantly into the trees, good luck? If it is a 415+ yard par 4, take your chances or play it as a three-shot hole and try to get up and down for par? 

 

I remember hearing in the Arccos database, the average fairways hit with a driver is 60% and the average fairways hit with a 3 wood is 61%. Not really any difference there. It's vaguely plausible that people are more likely to hit a 3 wood on a narrower hole, so it may be that 3 wood is slightly more accurate, but it's rarely sufficiently so that the added fairway hit is worth it over the lost yardage.