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Most hated course design tricks


Note: This thread is 6167 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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Posted
Blind tee shots or blind shots to the green.

WTIB:
Callaway FT-9 Tour 9.5° Scads of shafts - now: Kai'li 63 stiff
Tour Edge Exotics 3 & 5 FW
Callaway X-22 Tour irons
Bobby Jones 3 & 4 hybridsRife Abaco/Odyessy Black Series i9 puttersWith a few more hangin' around


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Posted
About one third of the courses around Myrtle Beach.

Best, Mike Elzey

In my bag:
Driver: Cleveland Launcher 10.5 stiff
Woods: Ping ISI 3 and 5 - metal stiffIrons: Ping ISI 4-GW - metal stiffSand Wedges: 1987 Staff, 1987 R-90Putter: two ball - black bladeBall: NXT Tour"I think what I said is right but maybe not.""If you know so much, why are you...


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Posted
tree chutes, making me drive down a 40 yard gap.... I get really nervous and unconfident in my driver.

Also, hidden creeks that run in front of greens on longer holes. If i catch my long irons fat and it lands in a 2 foot wide creek, make me FURIOUS

Posted
We have one hole at our course in NC that has a steep downhill lie approach shot to a green that slopes away. It is very goofy. The good players usually just try to hit the ball in the trap that guards the front of the green, which is the only flat lie. However, since it is a par 5, it takes two long and accurate shots to get there, everyone else is doomed to the downhill approach to a green that won't hold...I think it sucks.

In my bag:

Driver: SQ 9.5, Graphite Stiff Shaft
3 Wood: Diablo 13 degree, Stiff Shaft
2 Hybrid: SQ 18 degree, Steel Stiff ShaftIrons: MP-30, 3-PWSW: 56* Vokey Copper spin-milledFW 52* VokeyFlat Stick Zing 2Ball: Pro V1x


Posted
Inaccurate yardages to inflate the course rating. Thanks to new GPS technology we don't have to rely on those.

But the Golfers who don't buy the new technology are always asking..what do I got left??? My reply..."Apparently the 300 dollars that I spent to give you yardages!"

  • Administrator
Posted
But the Golfers who don't buy the new technology are always asking..what do I got left??? My reply..."Apparently the 300 dollars that I spent to give you yardages!"

Yeah, sadly it's unethical and against the rules to lie and give them bad yardages.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
Inaccurate yardages to inflate the course rating. Thanks to new GPS technology we don't have to rely on those.

Sharing is caring, Bob.

In my bag:

Driver: SQ 9.5, Graphite Stiff Shaft
3 Wood: Diablo 13 degree, Stiff Shaft
2 Hybrid: SQ 18 degree, Steel Stiff ShaftIrons: MP-30, 3-PWSW: 56* Vokey Copper spin-milledFW 52* VokeyFlat Stick Zing 2Ball: Pro V1x


Posted
Halfway houses that dont sell beer!

In The Bag
Mizuno MX 560 Driver
Taylor made 3 wood
Mizuno HIFLI 21*
Mizuno MX 25's 4-pwMizuno MX series wedges 50, 56*/11 & 60*Bettinardi C02 putter4 bottles of pilsner,2 packs cigars


Posted
I played a course today that I haven't played in a long time. It's a Metroparks course, so the natural terrain is very hilly. I completely forgot how different it is from the range. You almost never have a great lie, even in the fairway, so adjustments are key.

They also use small creeks that run in front of the greens that you can't see if you're in a small valley. I've lost many a ball that way.

In My Bag:

Driver: R7 460
5w: Bah!
3w: F Speed LDHybrid: CPR3 3iIrons: Acer XK High Trajectory 4-PWWedges: Vokey Spin Milled 52* 54* 60*Putter: Daytona CGBBall: One Platinum Tour ix


Posted
False fronts on greens that look exactly like the green from a distance. Just played a course where every hole had false fronts and side aprons. Not really sure what the point is except deception especially for people who don't have good distance vision. Make the hole difficult but don't try and deceive in this way.

2009 Burner R
FT-I Fusion Squareway 3W 15* Fujikura Speeder Fit-On R
5W R7 R
FT Fusion Hybrids Draw 3/21*, 4/24*
G5 5-PW X-forged Vintage: 52.12, 56.14MDScotty Cameron: Newport 2 ProV1


Posted
This may have been posted already, but my personal pet peeve are overhanging trees that penalize a tee-shot hit in the fairway. Major bummer.

Driver: R7 425 TP w/ stock Fujikura stiff shaft
Hybrid: 16 degree baffler pro with stiff Fujikura Speeder shaft
Irons: X-20 tour 3-PW w/ 6.0 Project X shafts
52 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft
56 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft60 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaftPutter:...


  • Administrator
Posted
This may have been posted already, but my personal pet peeve are overhanging trees that penalize a tee-shot hit in the fairway. Major bummer.

You're not watching the PGA Tour event this week, by chance, are you?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
You're not watching the PGA Tour event this week, by chance, are you?

Ha! Actually, Harbour Town is one of my favorite courses. Love the small greens. Love the seaside atmosphere. It's frustrating when an approach from the fairway is obstructed by trees, but, for some courses, it's a primary defense from lack of length or lateral hazards (i.e. Harbour Town) and shot placement should enter the player's mind on the tee. I give those courses a pass for sure.

Driver: R7 425 TP w/ stock Fujikura stiff shaft
Hybrid: 16 degree baffler pro with stiff Fujikura Speeder shaft
Irons: X-20 tour 3-PW w/ 6.0 Project X shafts
52 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft
56 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft60 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaftPutter:...


Posted
Anything built by the Dye's! Those guys must hate golfers. I hate blind tee shots (dangerous and make for slow play) and rolling mounds that Jack Nicklaus loves to put on everything. I think that Gary Player designs some pretty fair courses.

Here in St Louis he designed a course call Tapawingo. We usually play it at 6,600 it is fair but challenging. He did well with this course. http://www.tapawingogolf.com/course/index.html

Posted
I personally believe that you cannot please all of the people all of the time. I'd say the average golfer has a worse ego than course designers. Why? Because they insist on playing a course that allows them to score rather than be challenged. After playing golf for 21 years, I'm tired of playing bland courses that don't challenge me. Now, I'm playing the tips, all the time. Eventually, I think it will help me improve my game.

You go on to say that people complaining should play tennis or another uniformed sport, then you go on to complain about the senior tee's at these tourneys you attend. Why not accept the tee location and own those short hitters. Or join a league or tournement where you can play against people who have the same skill set you possess?

Posted
I hate par 5s that are unreachable in two because there is a dogleg after your second shot. Then if you hit a bad second shot, you have to hit another to the corner. On a normal par 5 you could hit a poor second shot, and still hit the green on a 3rd shot.

in the bag

Driver: 909D2 9.5° Oban Devotion Shaft

3 Wood: G10 15.5°
Hybrid: 3dx RC 20° Ironwood 

4-PW: MP-57's S300

Wedges: 51° MP-T Black Nickel 56° Vokey Spin Milled 

Putter: Tracy II 35" Iomic Grip 

Ball: Pro V1x


Posted
If you've played a round of golf you've experienced them, those horrid aspects of course design created for the sole purpose of making wayward or overly aggresive players pay. Pot bunkers, blind approaches, island greens, tiered greens; courses are becoming tougher by employing more of these tricks.

There are elements of course design I don't care for, but while many of these cost me strokes, I really believe they are part of the risk/reward/luck aspect of golf. Granted, playing a new course "blind" can present some genuine "unfair" situations. I have hit into many creeks and hazards that were either poorly marked on the card, or not marked at all. What I think is a well played and safe shot, turns into a penalty-and-drop situation. Fair? Well, yes and no...Would have been nice to have a caddy (echoing some previous comments about course design and caddies), but there is always next time, and that is part of what keeps me coming back.

I personally enjoy the challenges that even the most gimmicky holes present. Do they get me a bit riled at times? You bet. Is a 60 degree mound in the center of the fairway seem like being punished for a well-placed drive? You bet. But walking up to your best drive of the day, and seeing it sitting in a divot seems unfair too, but that, to me, is what the rub of the green is all about. You take the good with the bad, and sometimes you do get punished for a perfectly executed shot, but then again, who hasn't reaped the unexpected rewards of a push-slice into the lumberyard that miraculously pops out into the fairway? I played a course outside of Austin, Texas that was a muni at the time, but I think it was taken over by a private developer. Anyways, in the summer, it had rock hard fairways, one of which must have had 20 degrees of slope from left/right. I distinctly remember playing a well-hit drive with a healthy draw that landed no more than 2 feet from the first cut on the left....and then watched it rocket across and into the next fairway to the right. One would literally have to snap-hook a drive to have a chance of holding the fairway. Granted, this was more to do with the conditions of the soil that with anything else, but it seemed to punish what I thought to be an ideal shot under the conditions. Unfortunately, my estimation of the conditions was not correct. I played a dozen rounds there, and never once held the fairway, but learned to adapt so I at least had a manageable approach shot. As long as there isn't a windmill blocking the green, I think it is fair game, with a couple of exceptions. All that being said (yes, there's more), I can completely see how some of the mentioned features would discourage some golfers. I play fairly regularly with my father, who is a seasoned-citizen, and he doesn't have the distance/carry he had in his younger days. This has been mentioned before, but I bring it up again...Some courses seem to have missed the mark on their tee placement. I think needing a 200+ yard carry from the tips is completely reasonable, but too many times there is just too much carry required from the front tees to be fair, if there is such a thing. If someone chooses to play from the front tees, then I think the course should present a much more player-friendly layout, particularly with respect to distance/carry requirements. A 180 yard carry from the shortest tees to reach safety is not reasonable, in my estimation...but I say this mainly because I get to watch my old man sigh as he tees up on holes such as this, knowing full well that his best drive won't be enough. Perhaps these courses are making a killing off of the used ball sales in the pro-shop...I don't know. Still, Dad is the one that taught me that USGA made the rules for the game, not just for tournaments....so he pulls out a water ball, cermoniously plunks one in the drink, and then proceeds under rule 26-1...makes me want to cry sometimes...though when we have a press bet on, I manage to get over it...particularly if there are carry-overs involved!

In My Bag:

Driver: Si3 380
3 & 4 Woods: Eye-o-matic Persimmons (yes...Persimmons)
Irons: 3-PW R7 TP S300Wedges: Karsten II 57* SW, Vokey 54.10 and 58.08 Spin Milled Oil CanPutter: White Hot SabertoothBall: Pro V1x"That's the easiest shot in golf....a short chip into the sand."


Note: This thread is 6167 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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