Poll: Equitable Stroke Control?

[MrSandman]

When you are playing and you have reached your "max" for a hole, do you pick up and just put your double or triple or quad on the card, or do you play out and then adjust your card after your round?


For those of you unaware of ESC (Equitable Stroke Control), here are the guidelines:

18 hole course handicap, Maximum strokes allowed on any hole:
9 or less = Double Bogey
10 through 19 = 7 maximum
20 through 29 = 8 maximum
30 through 39 = 9 maximum
40 and above = 10 maximum

[Dent]

I play out, place the real score on the card, with my max in little numbers.

[golf_junkie27]

I'm with Dent. I play out and keep real score.

Personally, I don't understand the benefits of ESC. If you're in Match Play, there is no benefit. If you're in a stroke play match and score a 13, are you really going to say, "hey, I can only get a 7?" To me, its ridiculous and serves no purpose.

Just my opinion.

[Harry Longshanks]

I'm with Dent. I play out and keep real score.

It's designed to keep a "blow up" holes from altering the player's handicap index too much. It's important to remember that the Handicap Index is a measure of your potential, not your actual. Therefore, a round with a score on a hole that is a huge anomaly shouldn't cause your index to rise to the point where it no longer reflects your true playing potential.

Plus, without it, sandbaggers could intentionally mangle a single hole in a round to keep their index artificially high, then play to their full potential in "money" rounds.

[Harold]

It depends. Currently as a 20+ my ESC is 8 so anything 9 or higher I can't do worse by handicap. The first I will play as is. If I should score any more in the round I will pick up after 8. No reason knocking myself senseless since it's not a career round and chances are it's not one of the 10 best of 20. Now when I was bouncing between the high teens and low 20's I was much pickier as to when I picked up when my handicap was in the teens than when I was (am) in the 20's.

[golf_junkie27]

It's designed to keep a "blow up" holes from altering the player's handicap index too much. It's important to remember that the Handicap Index is a measure of your potential, not your actual. Therefore, a round with a score on a hole that is a huge anomaly shouldn't cause your index to rise to the point where it no longer reflects your true playing potential.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I just don't believe that getting a 10 on one hole is going to effect your handicap. If you're getting blow up holes and its happening all too frequently, then, I'm sorry, it should alter your handicap.

If I'm a ten, switch clubs or whatever and all of a sudden I'm playing like crap and can't break 100, then my handicap should go up. I should not be maxing my score to protect a number that indicates "potential." For me, I would be doing myself and my game a disservice by not being true to my score.

[sacm3bill]

If you're getting blow up holes and its happening all too frequently, then, I'm sorry, it should alter your handicap.

Well, if you're getting blowup holes frequently it *will* alter your handicap.

As I'm sure you're aware, the purpose of the handicap index is to show your potential . I.e., what you would shoot if you played your best game, with no blowup holes. So limiting the effect of blowup holes using ESC is exactly what is necessary.

If I'm a ten, switch clubs or whatever and all of a sudden I'm playing like crap and can't break 100, then my handicap should go up.

And it will. ESC doesn't prevent your handicap from going up when you play like crap on a regular basis. It just prevents it from going up so much that it no longer accurately reflects your potential.

Anyway, to answer the poll question, I play out since I still want to keep a record of what I actually shot.

[golf_junkie27]

Well, if you're getting blowup holes frequently it *will* alter your handicap.

Sac,

I realize how the handicap system works. The problem I have is with writing a number that is not reflective of the truth in order to protect a possibility. For me, the only way I'm going to limit the effects of blowup holes is by avoiding them and not writing down a fictitious number. If I'm playing like garbage, to the point where my scores reflect that I'm no longer playing to a particular handicap, then those are the breaks. Like I said, for me, I want truth in my scoring and willing to deal with the consequences.

[Ben]

Personally, I don't use ESC. At my level, I feel that if I make my double-or worse, than I deserve it, and I post it.

[sacm3bill]

Like I said, for me, I want truth in my scoring and willing to deal with the consequences.

Well it sounds like your motivation is you don't want an artificially low vanity handicap. That's fine, but only as long as you never play in any tournaments where you're getting strokes based on your 'cap. If you do, you're by definition sandbagging by not entering your properly ESC-adjusted score for the rounds you play.

In fact, I'm not sure you do understand how ESC works, after re-reading your first response:

Personally, I don't understand the benefits of ESC... If you're in a stroke play match and score a 13, are you really going to say, "hey, I can only get a 7?"

You can't "only get a 7", not for the purposes of the match you are playing. Your score would be 13. You seem to think that ESC plays a role in your score for a tournament, but it does not.

[golf_junkie27]

In fact, I'm not sure you do understand how ESC works, after re-reading your first response:

Sac,

Read my first paragraph. I'm aware that ESC is not going to play a role in either Match or Stroke play. That's why I said "I don't understand the benefits." Again, it's a matter of personal preference. If someone wants to use ESC, good for them. For me, I'm going to make up that awful score.

[alf174]

The handicap service I use will automatically trim hole scores for ESC so I record the total, enter the hole scores online, and let the service do the adjustment if needed.

If discovered, not using ESC when recording scores could lead to disqualification for not having a correct handicap index in many of the tournaments local to me. ESC is part of maintaining a correct USGA handicap regardless of the player's like or dislike of it.

[TinCupTampa]

I understand ESC but I dont think that it has affected my handicap either up or down. I record all my scores in their actuality. My service is supposed to update my handicap with ESC. However my actual scores and my ESC scores are the same. I dont think I have shot anything higher than a 7 or 8 on a hole so it may just be a moot point for the time being.

[Alex B]

Look at it like this: let's say there's a wild, inconsistent player who makes tons of birdies but also tons of triples (and worse). If I (a consistent, reliable player) were to play a match against him (in a match-play format), and we had equivalent handicaps, he would most likely win. Why?

Alex: 5-4-6-5-5-4-5-4-5 = 43
Wild: 4-3-8-4-7-3-4-3-7 = 43

Obviously this is an extreme example, but, although we would have tied in stroke play, the wild player is 3-up in match play. ESC helps to eliminate this discrepancy.

[MrSandman]

Golf Junkie, hate to break it to you, but if you're putting down 8's, 9's and 10's on your card, you are by definition a sandbagger. ESC is not designed to provide you with any services. ESC is designed to protect the field from sandbaggers. Even if you are not intentionally sandbagging, not using ESC is a blatant form of sandbagging and is just as bad as somebody posting artificially high scores.

Ben is a PGA Apprentice, so he likely does not play in Net tournaments, thus sandbagging is not an issue. But an 11 handicap who posts their "blowup" holes is sandbagging.

Also, the ESC is not going to affect your handicap much. How often do you make 8's or 9's? And how many times would those rounds be in your top 10? And even when that occurs, you're only talking about taking a stroke off your differential (so 0.1 off your handicap). Still, if it would affect you by just 1 stroke on your hdcp, and you win your next match by 1 hole, your opponent would be correct in saying they lost to a sandbagger. But nonetheless, the "I count every stroke, even if the handicap system has a cap on what I can post" mentality is still a form of sandbagging.




Back on topic. What do other players do?

[bcp]

I agree with SandMan, Golf Junkie is sandbagging.

I pick it up and take max unless specified to play everything out, or I am still in the hole for match play. In that case, I adjust the number prior to posting.

Most times the group that I play in will use net score with your ESC max being the highest score allowed for each hole. That is fair because everyone in on the bet is playing by the same rules and keeps the pace of play on target. There is nothing I hate worse than watching someone hold up a group by playing out to a 10. I have no problem with people who choose to play out every shot, just be mindful of others on the course and let faster players through.

[sonicblue]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. If you're in any sort of match, you must hole out (or have your hole-out conceded). Your total strokes is your score. ESC is ONLY an adjustment to the score that runs through the handicap formula. IMO, any number that follows "Today I shot" should have NO ESC adjustment. You can say "but I'll only post a --- " but that is NEVER "your score."

So, to answer the question: hole out everything.

[MrSandman]

sonicblue, if you are playing a match, you have to hole it out. If my opponenet makes a 6, but I have hit 2 balls out of bounds, I cannot claim to tie the hole because of ESC. I lose the hole, even though my scorecard will ultimately say the same score as the opponent.

Here is the situation where Max occurs most: Lost Balls that you did not think would be lost.
You hit a drive or second shot, it might be in the side of the rough, or just miss the green. You go up to the area where you thought the ball would be, but cannot find it. You search for 5 minutes, still cannot find it. What do you do?
If you are playing in front of me on a Saturday, and you spend 5 minutes looking for a ball, fine, that is your right. But if suddenly you are cruising back to where I am standing to reload, and likely taking another 4 or 5 strokes on the hole, I, like most people, am going to be pretty pissed off at you for slowing down the course. Take your max and concede the hole, the chances of you making better than a double are pretty slim anyway (especially after the mental disappointment of losing a ball you thought was in play). Just drop a ball where you thought you should have been, play out the hole, but put your max on the card.