Your opinon on an incident yesterday

[Smallville]

Here ya go Harry:

http://warriordoc.com/aussie_words.htm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...;=Google+Search

[chingali]

I've misplaced my Aussie to Yank dictionary - Chingali, can I get a little help here?

Here you go, this is what Urban Dictionary has to say about it and it is pretty close to it's general "downunder" usage. Due to the large number of dickheads we have in this part of the world (as I expect you also have in yours) it is a phrase that gets used a

LOT Spit the Dummy Australian Term: To indulge in a sudden display of anger or frustration; to lose one’s temper. The phrase is usually used of an adult, and the implication is that the outburst is childish, like a baby spitting out its dummy in a tantrum and refusing to be pacified. (Dummy is a pacifier)

[Harry Longshanks]

the implication is that the outburst is childish, like a baby spitting out its dummy in a tantrum and refusing to be pacified. (Dummy is a pacifier)

Ahhh! "Dummy" is a pacifier! That makes sense! Thanks all

[Grogger31]

I'm a little confused about the comments stating that it is partly the OP's fault that the group was 2 holes behind. Can someone clarify this for me?

It sounds to me, and maybe I misread it, that Gavin is a very poor golfer who can't keep his ball anywhere near the course. How could the other members of the group be partly to blame if they have to spend 5 minutes everytime they have to look for numbnut's ball (which sounds like it was probably at least one shot every few holes)?

Am I missing something?

[Lefty731PM]

Greetings

Are you suggesting that you don't have to look for a playing partner's ball?

God grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gavin might have been a bit blunt, but he is absolutely correct.

[steve8820]

I am not sure that I would say you are in the wrong here. It is a very frustrating round of golf when you have to constantly look for other players balls. I'll do it for a couple of holes, but after that sorry they are on their own. Nothing screws up pace of play more than messing around in the woods looking for someone's ball. Your response to Gavin should have been "try to keep your f'ing ball in play more often next time!!!!!!!"

[Lefty731PM]

I am not sure that I would say you are in the wrong here. It is a very frustrating round of golf when you have to constantly look for other players balls. I'll do it for a couple of holes, but after that sorry they are on their own. Nothing screws up pace of play more than messing around in the woods looking for someone's ball. Your response to Gavin should have been "try to keep your f'ing ball in play more often next time!!!!!!!"

You have to be joking. Do you think the guy is losing his ball on purpose? He'd feel bad enough without people taking a "screw you" attitude. Golf in America sounds like great fun - so sociable and friendly!!!

[Lefty731PM]

I'm a little confused about why he was DQ'd. Could he not have hit another provisional ball and took the penalty stroke? Since you guys were already behind the pace, I think you did the right thing by playing your ball and trying to avoid further delay. As for Gavin's lost ball, he should have hit a provisional and then you guys should have signaled the group behind you to play through while he searched for his lost ball. You yourself are under no obligation to help him look so I think you were well within the rules of etiquette to play your ball first. You went the extra mile by walking back 150 yds after making your shot. He should've been grateful.

What are you talking about? Why was the OP 150 yards up the fairway? Be grateful for doing what he's expected to do?

I'd say Gavin was fed up with his rude playing partner and was aware that he wasn't going to qualify anyway. He just wanted out of there. Fair enough too. If I was playing with a person who hit balls into the trees on every hole, I'd help search for up to 5 minutes every time if I had to. I'd hate it and would try to avoid this person in future, but that's golf. And - plenty of people have helped me search for my errant shots. Don't recall anyone refusing to help another player. Some of "you people" are kidding yourselves.

[Grogger31]

The OP said that this was qualifying for the club championship and the top 12 qualify. It sounds to me, unless the OP's course is ridiculously difficult, that Gavin is like a 30+ handicap (maybe the OP can let us know).

Why would Gavin even be attempting to qualify for this? If the answer is "for the hell of it", then IMHO he has NO place ruining better golfers' attempt to qualify because he's entitled to. That's called being selfish.

[Harry Longshanks]

Why was the OP 150 yards up the fairway?

Not too hard to be 150 yards ahead when the guy is slicing into the woods.

And you might consider toning down the "holier-than-thou" attitude. It's possible to express an opinion without putting down everyone who has a different opinon than you.

[firstcut]

I think Gavin is a Jackass. Sure, everyone is right about the OP helping Gavin Jackass find his Ball(s). But there's something to be said for Gavin Jackass having the etiquitte to realize he sucks and at some point tell the other players to play their game while he takes his lumps. Especially if his lost balls are a leading cause of the group being two holes behind.

I suck and usually lose a sleeve a round. After the second ball I try not to let anyone help me for too long and just start dropping quickly. Why? because *my* etiquette tells me that it's innapropriate for a lesser player to screw up someone elses round. I wonder if the guys in Q school spend a lot of time helping each other look for balls?

IMNSHO, if Gavin was worth a shit he would have done the same. I'm not sure I can rag on the OP for not helping a selfish jackass, etiquette or not..

[JohnTwing]

A few questions here:

1. Was OB a potential issue here? Or was he just lost in rough?
2. Why 2 provisionals? Did he also yack his 1st provisional?
3. (For other people) Given the warning, and finding the 1st ball, was heading to your ball incorrect, playing ready golf?
4. (For other people) How is waiving through helpful to being on the clock? Wouldn't you still have potential DQ issues?
5. By my math, this guy could have been lying 7 if he played his 2nd provisional and lost it. No?
6. (For other people) If OP's going to his ball was proper, what should he have done? How would he know if the ball was lost or not? Does the player then need to request help? Or what?

It sounds to me that OP was in the right. He provided as much assistance as possible, and tried to speed up play.

OP is in the UK - how do the rules there change this?

If you could have waived up the next group, then that is the right thing to do. If the issue is that you can't let the group behind you play through, but have to speed up your own play, what can you possibly do here?

[JessN16]

I'd like to know why the group was on the clock in the first place. Everyone keeps saying "if the group is on the clock, that's partly OP's responsibility;" well, no it's not. If he's playing fast and scoring well, what's he supposed to do to the rest of them, carry a coachwhip and beat the skin off their butts if they don't hurry up? He can't force anyone to go faster.

If he's at risk of getting DQ'ed because Gavin keeps spraying the ball, Gavin would be well-advised to show some etiquette of his own and basically get out of everyone else's way. I believe OP said scoring was scratch, anyway, which would mean Gavin is doing nothing but serving as a boat anchor.

Jess

[Anand]

First of all - very many thanks to everyone who replied. I've certainly gained some great insights which I will carry to all future rounds.

Originally Posted by CPGA_LeftyNation

To be two holes behind is a little much. The issue lies within the group, not an individual. However; to hit a shot to speed up play once the ball is found, or another one is put into play is acceptable as long as you check with your group members. Don't finish the hole without another group memeber there to witness, but to hit a shot shouldn't be an issue.

After all, you're trying to speed things up so everyone avoids a penalty, including Gavin.

This was the biggest dilemma as the round progressed. We were all trying to find the right balance of keeping up with the pace of play and helping each other locate errant shots. After a while, we were spending most of our time looking for (mostly) Gavin's tee shots. We have long, heavy rough after the first cut and it's very easy to lose balls.

Originally Posted by chingali

It doesn't matter whether it's the first time you have to spend time looking for a ball or it's the third time or it's the hundredth, you go and help your group find it. It's basic etiquette and there is also a bit of the kharma thing involved. You never know when you are going to need your ball found, if you help everyone else sooner or later it'll work in your favour.

Yes, I agree with that in principle - and will try to practice that every time I play. However when you're playing your most important round of the season, wading through knee-high grass every 3rd hole can destroy your rhythm, tempo, etc. Like I said, it's tough to find that balance -- especially in a competitive round.

Originally Posted by chingali

As for losing two holes that is completely unacceptable. It's up to the group to keep up and help out if someone is struggling.

Do you see the contradiction there? Helping Gavin out every 3rd hole was THE CAUSE of our slow play.

Originally Posted by NM Golf

You should have helped him look for his ball, you were wrong for not doing so. You also need to take some responsibility for being 2 holes behind. That being said how he dealt with it may not have been up to par either. Hopefully you learned a lesson in etiquette and will do the right thing from now on.

I'm actually taking my lesson from this forum. There is a general split of opinion and, for the most part, the lower-handicaps on here suggest that I should have helped to look for his ball -- irrespective of whether it was the first or thirtieth time. I'm going to defer to their greater experience in both casual and competitive golf. Although it totally kills your rhythm after a while, I'm going to always help look in future.

Originally Posted by Doctorfro

Everyone seems to want to blame the entire group for being two holes behind but c'mon, you all know all it takes is one guy having a REALLY bad day to slow the group to a grind. None of us was there and we can't judge the pace of play. The fact is a two stroke penalty was at stake for everyone. If the OP had simply just hit his ball and gone back to help find the ball and apologized for getting ahead, that should have been the end of it and it shouldn't have been an issue. Gavin was not a gentlemen for copping a "tude".

Originally Posted by Grogger31

I'm a little confused about the comments stating that it is partly the OP's fault that the group was 2 holes behind. Can someone clarify this for me?

It sounds to me, and maybe I misread it, that Gavin is a very poor golfer who can't keep his ball anywhere near the course. How could the other members of the group be partly to blame if they have to spend 5 minutes everytime they have to look for numbnut's ball (which sounds like it was probably at least one shot every few holes)?

Originally Posted by steve8820

I am not sure that I would say you are in the wrong here. It is a very frustrating round of golf when you have to constantly look for other players balls. I'll do it for a couple of holes, but after that sorry they are on their own. Nothing screws up pace of play more than messing around in the woods looking for someone's ball.

Gavin plays off 20-something - he's not a bad golfer, but he was having an up and down day. We were trawling through the rough during his 'down' moments. Our course is difficult and I bet almost none of the participants that day usually play from the back tees (7048). It was too much of a challenge for him and unfortunately, he was the one who regularly held up the rest of us. Having said that, we've all had rough days and it sucks even more when it's during an 'important' round. I empathise with Gavin a little more in hindsight.

Originally Posted by Grogger31

The OP said that this was qualifying for the club championship and the top 12 qualify. It sounds to me, unless the OP's course is ridiculously difficult, that Gavin is like a 30+ handicap (maybe the OP can let us know). Why would Gavin even be attempting to qualify for this? If the answer is "for the hell of it", then IMHO he has NO place ruining better golfers' attempt to qualify because he's entitled to. That's called being selfish.

It was clearly 'for the hell if it', as he said to someone else later on in the bar. But his handicap was within the limit and he was entitled to enter and try his luck. I would have done the same. Like I said above, our course is difficult - especially from the tips - there is water on 12 holes and the rough is long and thick. Maybe next year they will reconsider the handicap limit.

Originally Posted by JohnTwing

A few questions here:

1. Was OB a potential issue here? Or was he just lost in rough?
   

1. Lost.
   
   
   Originally Posted by JohnTwing
2. Why 2 provisionals? Did he also yack his 1st provisional? Yes. (not for the first time)
   

Originally Posted by JohnTwing

OP is in the UK - how do the rules there change this?

I don't think there's any difference in this situation.

Originally Posted by JohnTwing

If you could have waived up the next group, then that is the right thing to do. If the issue is that you can't let the group behind you play through, but have to speed up your own play, what can you possibly do here?

Although we were well behind the group in front, we only held up the group behind a couple of times on the front nine. On the back we were just about clear of them. There was no need to waive them through.

Given that we had been warned once, I didn't want to miss out because of a slow play penalty. I politely encouraged all of us to keep moving briskly between shots. It is not easy when you're having a tough time keeping it straight. We've all been there.

Again -- thank you all for your feedback -- have learned some useful things

[Anand]

You should have helped him look for his ball, you were wrong for not doing so. You also need to take some responsibility for being 2 holes behind.

It can be very difficult to concentrate watching someone hack it around. Plus, I find it hard to wait for someone to hit 4 shots before we get to my drive.

'Nuff said!

[Grogger31]

It was clearly 'for the hell if it', as he said to someone else later on in the bar. But his handicap was within the limit and he was entitled to enter and try his luck. I would have done the same. Like I said above, our course is difficult - especially from the tips - there is water on 12 holes and the rough is long and thick. Maybe next year they will reconsider the handicap limit.

IMHO, he should have realized he was having a bad day and let you guys try to qualify without being an anchor. Bad etiquette on his part and ridiculous for him to comment to you afterwards. Gavin sounds like a prick to me.

[Q.Q.Quillume]

...Sorry, and I hope for the sake of humanity that I'm not in the minority here, but I think you had not only a good reason to but an obligation to help him look for his ball...By that logic, in match play you should never help look for a player's ball, since "your there" to beat him...Sorry, I'm going to disagree with anyone who thinks that what the OP did was proper...

I thought ALL golfers helped opponents - match play or medal play - as well as teammates search for "lost" balls. Until reading this thread, that is . . .

I think the OP needs to work on his etiquette, common courtesy and patience. On the other hand, there would be nothing wrong with actually timing how long the search is and declaring the ball to be lost after five minutes if the searches were interminable rather than a strict five minutes.

[Fourputt]

I'll have to say that I've been in Gavin's position before, but I think I've handled it better than he did. My course has tall native grass rough too, which can be as high as 3-4 feet in a wet year. A ball hit into it has less than a 50-50 chance of being found, or of being playable when it is found. Like Gavin, we always play a provisional ball when any of us hits into the native. When I'm having a rough day (pun intended ), I will take whatever help is offered in looking for my ball at the start of the round, but if I continue to drag down the group, my expectations change. As the day goes on and I realize that I'm out of contention, I am more likely to make a quick search of the immediate area where the ball is thought to be, and if the ball isn't found within a couple of minutes, then I'll go and play my provisional and take the penalty.

The way I see it, the guy who's dragging the group down has a responsibility to his fellow competitors to NOT pull them down to his level, especially if one or more of them are in contention. I see this as just as much of an etiquette issue as helping to search for wayward balls. Even though not specifically stated in the Etiquette section of the Rules, just as helping others to search is not specifically stated, both come under the heading of showing consideration for other players. I think that you reach a point where your score is meaningless regardless of whether you find your ball or not, and at that point I no longer expect (or even want) another player to disrupt his game by walking an additional 50 or more yards to assist me in my quest for futility. In consideration of those other players I just want to try and stay out of their way as much as I can for the remainder of the round. I'll certainly do everything I can to help them find a wayward ball, but I no longer expect them to reciprocate.