And you thought Tiger had a good short game

[iacas]

Restaurants expect you to tip so they can minimize overhead by paying the average waiter or waitress minimum wage or sometimes less. When I waited tables at age 16 at a nice italian joint, I made 4.15 an hour plus tips. Try living on 4.15 an hour when some total jerk comes in, has a 100 dollar meal with his wife and leaves 5 dollars on the tip.

Just playing devil's advocate a little: even if they're there for two hours, you've made $13.30, or well above what minimum wage was when you were 16.

In other words, I never understood the correlation between the cost of food and the size of the tip. If I like the $25 steak dinner instead of the $8.99 "saver" meal, it requires the same effort from the waiter. Or if I use a coupon to do a "buy one get one free" dinner, my tip shouldn't be halved, too. I do understand that service is sometimes/usually better at places with higher food prices, but that's not always true, either. I think tipping has gotten out of hand. Last time I checked you don't tip waiters in France or a lot of other countries. They're expected to do the job for which they're compensated (and vice versa). There's something to be said for exceptional service and tipping in those cases, but honestly, when's the last time anyone had exceptional service at a restaurant?

[kafka01]

Would you think of tipping your doctor or lawyer? How about their staffs?

Does service industry staff make six figure incomes? No, because most of them are unskilled/"on the job traing" labor jobs earning minimum wages and are easiely replacable by new workforce, so why would any employer pay more than he has to and risk HIS business.

So these jobs will stay at the bottom of the payroll (not very motivating for them, trying to make a living off minimum wage, isnt it?), so where is the problem in tipping them when they are polite and doing a good job in serving your needs despite the crappy pay? I dont know how it is in your country, but if i only think about all the state employees who are serving the public and couldnt care less about your problems, but still earn a lot more than their counterparts in the public service industry. I´m just glad I dont get this service in a restaurant tbh. and it justifies a tip.

[carl4four]

Does service industry staff make six figure incomes? No, because most of them are unskilled/"on the job traing" labor jobs earning minimum wages and are easiely replacable by new workforce, so why would any employer pay more than he has to and risk HIS business.

So we are to tip them because they are unskilled? If they want to make six figures like an attorney or doctor they can take out the students loans and bust their butts in school. Someone else said if they weren't working for tips they would not be motivated and would do a poor job. Some of them do bad jobs now that wouldn't change based on their pay structure. If the wait person is that unmotivated they will be a failure regardless of the pay structure. There are lots of unskilled jobs and industry that provide on the job training that do not expect the businesses customers to pay the salaries of the workers on top of whatever job is being performed.

[ScottRempel]

I love the old tipping conversation. We've had friends that worked in restaurant service and they are of course the only ones I know that think servers should always be tipped and they always give the same "we don't get paid enough" arguement.
I of course agree with most of the people here. If you want to get paid more, get a better job, or perhaps do your job better. I know some good waitresses, and oddly enough, they never seem to complain about a lack of tips...hmm. I usually tip around 15%, but I have absolutely no issue leaving 0% if the service is not good. I seldom tip more then 15%, but I have, and it was because the service was great (a rare occassion).

Tiger is a regular guy (granted with a lot of money and a much better golf game then all of us); I'm sure he tips for good service and doesn't tip when it's crap.

[clubhousehero]

Ok. I see some common misconceptions going on. A lot of servers make less than minimum wage. I know a lot that are making like $4-5 today.

And some people are saying “well if they want to make more money, they should get a better paying job.” Well, what if they are working to pay their way through college?

And the reason they get tips is to encourage better service and because they will try and push more food and drinks, which helps the owner. The higher the bill, the more they should get paid. That’s why they ask if you want dessert or coffee and why they refill your drinks. They are essentially salespeople working on commission for the restaurant.

And yea, in some countries people don’t tip, but I know in Italy, a lot of, if not all, restaurants have cover charges. You are paying $10 just to sit down.

[clubhousehero]

Just playing devil's advocate a little: even if they're there for two hours, you've made $13.30, or well above what minimum wage was when you were 16.

Yea but in most places the server doesn't just keep the tip. It is usualy split with the busboys and some other people.

+1 to whoever said tiger isn't eating at red lobster. He is TIGER WOODS. He is getting that places best waiter and that waiter is gonna be on his best behavior. His glass isn't gonna be empty for more than a second before it is refilled.

[carl4four]

Ok. I see some common misconceptions going on. A lot of servers make less than minimum wage. I know a lot that are making like $4-5 today.

So you want the patron to pay them so they will push more food and drinks on them? Do you pay extra commission to the salesperson at the car lot that convinces you to add on a bunch of stuff to your car or is it included in the price you are given? If them pushing food and drinks on patrons helps the owner then the owner should pay them their "commissions." That's how sales works. If a person is working as a wait person and doesn't like it they can find another job. I live in a college town and many college kids work at the shopping centers, golf courses, grocery stores etc., some work at restaurants. It is their choice. If they need the chance to earn a tip as their motivation to do a good job they are going to struggle in life. I am so tired of people saying that a wait person will not provide good service if it wasn't for tips. That is the stupidest argument that can be made. If that is the case then what will they do if they ever get a job that isn't as a wait person? Will they just do a crappy job and say well you didn't pay me more to do a good job?

[iacas]

A lot of servers make less than minimum wage. I know a lot that are making like $4-5 today.

...plus tips. If they're making only $4 to $5/hour after tips, they're either bad at their job or their boss sucks (empty restaurants, poor table assignments, to many waiters, whatever).

And some people are saying “well if they want to make more money, they should get a better paying job.” Well, what if they are working to pay their way through college?

So what if they are? I made $30k one year in college. What's stopping them from doing something different? There are options out there. Heck, strippers pay their way through college (yeah, right) and I'm pretty sure they earn more than $4/hour.

And the reason they get tips is to encourage better service and because they will try and push more food and drinks, which helps the owner.

I'm sorry, but that's not an argument for why we should tip people, and I disagree with the premise that it's a commission. If it was a commission, the price of the food would include the tip and we wouldn't ever worry about it.

We tip for the service , not the sale . The same effort (service) is required to bring out two $25 steak dinners as it is to bring out two $8.99 dinner specials - yet the former is expected to tip nearly 3x as much? Doesn't make sense. Like I said, I tip - and I generally tip pretty well - but that doesn't mean I don't disagree with the whole premise and wish it just went away.

[clubhousehero]

So you want the patron to pay them so they will push more food and drinks on them? Do you pay extra commission to the salesperson at the car lot that convinces you to add on a bunch of stuff to your car or is it included in the price you are given? If them pushing food and drinks on patrons helps the owner then the owner should pay them their "commissions." That's how sales works.

Yes, a car salesman does make more if he sells a car with all the bells and whistles. What they make is directly related to the price of the vehical they sell to you, not just the total number of sales. And lets face it, if the owner were to pay their commissions, he wouldn't just eat the overhead. He would pass on the expenses to the patrons. Maybe raise all the prices by 15% then just pay the staff a regular wage.

would you be ok with that? And i'm sure they would provide good service without tips. But they need to get paid one way or another. Whether that be tips or a higher pay scale, that money is comming out of the patrons pockets.

[clubhousehero]

I'll agree with this.

I still stand by the fact that it is like a commission in the very basic idea that the larger the sale/bill, the more they (should) make.

[carl4four]

Yes, a car salesman does make more if he sells a car with all the bells and whistles. What they make is directly related to the price of the vehical they sell to you, not just the total number of sales. And lets face it, if the owner were to pay their commissions, he wouldn't just eat the overhead. He would pass on the expenses to the patrons. Maybe raise all the prices by 15% then just pay the staff a regular wage.

Yes I would be fine with raising the price so the owner can pay the employees rather than expecting customers to do so. Also why put your employees at the mercy of customers to pay them in addition to paying their bill.

You missed the point about car salesmen and commission. You do not pay the salesman on top of the price of the car, it is all included. No other industry relies on the person buying a good or service to pay for the good or service and then pay more to the employee of the business because the business doesn't pay them adequately.

[flopdarock]

i had friends in college that made pretty good money during the summer waiting tables... enough so that during school they pretty much concentrated strictly on studying an barely worked during the semesters... but san diego is full of upscale places... i knew ppl that worked at denny's all throughout school and never had money... hahaha

just because some restaurants pay less than minimum wage doesnt mean some of the waitstaff are living on skidrow... altho id think a few of them are

[I <3 Titleist]

...plus tips. If they're making only $4 to $5/hour after tips, they're either bad at their job or their boss sucks (empty restaurants, poor table assignments, to many waiters, whatever).

I don't know, Iacas. The way I see it, is if everyone in the food service industry followed the standard "go find another job" suggestion, your 8.99 steak dinner would be 13.99 pretty quick. That's the problem. It would be great there were no such thing as waiters, and you had a drink fountain and a personal chef at your table. BUT- Unfortunately, you don't and probably seldom will. In the meantime, some kid in high school is busting his ass for his first car, and you're judging his inexperienced and below standard service and cutting his hourly wage in half. If you're cool with that, then so be it. But again, it's pretty hard to be on the other side of the argument when you've never been screwed over by a stingy ass person who couldn't care less about your 35 dollar a day paycheck.

[iacas]

The way I see it, is if everyone in the food service industry followed the standard "go find another job" suggestion, your 8.99 steak dinner would be 13.99 pretty quick.

No. "Go get another job" only applies to those who are unhappy with their wages. The vast majority of servers I've ever talked with (mostly when I was younger, of course, and they were friends) were quite happy with what they were making.

Most wait staff make decent money.

Unfortunately, you don't and probably seldom will. In the meantime, some kid in high school is busting his ass for his first car, and you're judging his inexperienced and below standard service and cutting his hourly wage in half.

Where have I said anything implying we should do away with wait staff? It's only through your illogical extreme that you could arrive at such a point.

To use your earlier example, you said you made $3 on a $50 tab. Let's say all six of your tables are equally as cheap... even if you have those tables for two full hours, that's $18, or $9/hour on top of your base pay. And like I said, 99% of the time I tip about 20%. The last time I tipped any less - and it was still 10% - we had absolutely wretched service. But just because I tip well and follow the various "tipping guidelines" doesn't mean I agree with the practice or it's various guidelines and quirks (like meal price influencing tip amount without requiring any additional "service").

If you're cool with that, then so be it. But again, it's pretty hard to be on the other side of the argument when you've never been screwed over by a stingy ass person who couldn't care less about your 35 dollar a day paycheck.

I don't believe you are qualified to state where I'm coming from, nor do you know whether I've been a waiter or not in the past and been "screwed over" by a "stingy ass person."

[bigfred31]

I get tired of hearing wait staff or others that rely on tips complain about the customers only tipping 15% or not tipping. Tips are not required they are only provided by the generosity of the person (and too often the service is not very goo but the person still expects to be tipped). If you don't like it don't take the job. You have to know that tipping is optional and that some will tip well, some only average and some not at all or very little. If the employers cared they would pay a fair wage for the job performed and just include it in the price of the meal. But your employers don't care (and yet you don't complain about them but instead complain about the customers) or they would pay a better wage and not make you at the mercy of the generosity of others for your wages.

here here. im sick of people telling others what to do with their money. you don't like where you are at in life study or work harder to get a better job. nobody owes you anything in this life.

[JonnyGolf]

Just playing devil's advocate a little: even if they're there for two hours, you've made $13.30, or well above what minimum wage was when you were 16.

Crack me up. You've apparently never had service in France. I've been there several times, had many meals, and never had "service" either. And, when you check the price of the meals, you know that "service" is built into the price.

[JonnyGolf]

I'll probably get banned for this, but I'm ready to go. Any of you idiots, let me repeat that, idiots, that stiff a hard-working waiter for 15% are lower than pond scum.

They have to put up with your idiocy, smile, be pleasant, and what you don't see is them yelling at the back of the house and the bartenders to get your meals and drinks out quickly. Nobody that has ever worked in a restaurant or in any service industry would ever stiff a waiter except for horrible service or being disrespectful.

If you can't afford 15 or 20%, you know what, McDonalds and KFC will welcome your business. Nobody else want you in the restaurants. You're invariably miserable, cheap, complaining idiots and you ruin the experience for everyone.

Enough said, mods feel free to ban me.

[Trav]

Crack me up. You've apparently never had service in France. I've been there several times, had many meals, and never had "service" either. And, when you check the price of the meals, you know that "service" is built into the price.

You're right, the "gratuity" is automatically added to the price, not just in France but in most other countries.

I'm surprised more people haven't realized that the original article was - supposedly - about what Tiger routinely does, not just in cases of bad service. If true, it means he does not pay much attention to the "little people." You can't tell me every one of his wait staff, on every visit, is inattentive or borderline. Remember, this is a guy who was happy to accept a "grautity" from adoring fans who - in what I consider to have been a gross breach of the spirit of the rules, not to mention an insult to other players - moved a huge rock that was in the way of his shot a few years ago. Hopefully this tip stuff was a media exaggeration. IMO restaurant patrons are free to not tip or to vary a tip to reflect good or bad service, but if they regularly don't give anything it probably says more about them than the staff. Unless there's a bad experience, paying a tip is a part of civilized behavior.