Flat like Hogan or Upright like Nicklaus?

[verse214]

I used to have more of an upright swing when i first started playing and I had a severe case of hitting the ball out to in and creating a slice. I ended up getting a lesson from a local PGA pro who gave me a drill to train my swing to hit the ball from the inside. Slices fixed.

My swing ended up flattening out quite a bit.

I brought this up at my second lesson (3 mos. after my first) and it happened to be the beginning of the season. My pro would not have said anything about it had I not brought it up while we were reviewing a video of my swing and he brushed it off at first. I kind of pushed the subject asking him his opinion on whether it is something that needs fixing. He ended up promising that we would work on it in Oct. toward the end of the season bc he said i wouldn't be able to enjoy golf if I started changing my swing now.

I feel like if i'm going to change it, I might as well start now. I drill like a maniac when I practice and this thought of going to the range and ingraining more and more of this flatness if i'm going to change it in oct is KILLING ME.

There are very few pros (if any) that I can think of on tour that still swing it flat like Hogan. This is what prompted my questioning in the first place. My pro said they're more upright bc they're able to generate more power since you are able to pull on the club with stronger muscles in the downswing when you swing upright.

Question: Is this even something important that I should be thinking of; does it make a difference between upright or flat?

Are there any pros that are out there who play with flat swings (maybe that guy Angel Jiminez?)

Are any of you guys/gals flat swingers like Hogan? Is it a problem that I should start fixing now or is it something that isn't important?

My ballflight is fine.. miss is a hook..

Thanks!

[iacas]

The Stack and Tilt guys actually like to swing pretty flat. You'd be surprised, too, at the number of somewhat flat swingers (even outside the S&Ters;). Tiger isn't nearly as upright as he used to be either - his arms are almost across his shoulders.

Just don't watch Rory Sabbatini.

Oh, and one other thing: it sounds like you might want to switch from a two-plane swing to a one-plane swing. Look up some of the Jim Hardy stuff on that...

[Brakkus]

There's quite a lot of guys on tour whose arm and shoulder plane match up well particulary with the driver.Mahan,Byrd,Tommy Armour 111,AK,obviously with a driver you need lower ballflight.

Myself I can't put my right arm behind my shoulder joint due to dislocating it when I was 22,I still have trouble reaching for the seatbelt in my car with the right arm,so I get flat but not as flat as Hogan.

Naturally as your irons become shorter distance away from the ball serves to steepen the swing plane and in the mirror my left forearm covers the right shoulder socket.I think of myself as one plane even if I am slightly higher by a few inches at the top.

I would highly recommend Hardy's book as I used it as a blueprint for my swing.

[$2 Nassau]

Always been a fairly upright swinger. At about 6'4" I assume that is normal? It's gotten slightly flatter but nowhere near where it needs to be I imagine. Just don't have the time to devote to reworking my entire swing. One day maybe.

[DavidFehertysBike]

Ive been tranistioning to a more flat swing for the last few months. I used to be very upright. I like the results so far even though i havent been playing well latley. Im not a tall guy (5'11) so i feel the flatter swing is just fine for my height. And a flatter swing seems easier to control, and it feels more compact.

[Eeryck]

I think it was during the Masters talking about Angel Cabrera and how he changed the lie angle on his clubs from 2* upright to 4* flat, because he was working on flattening out his swing.

IIRC they also mentioned that many of the guys on tour are using a flatter swing plane because it creates a wider arc than a more upright swing therefore producing more power. Now relative to Hogan's plane how flat they are I can't say.

Of course this is all just based on the golf commentator during the Masters

FWIW,

-E

[Brakkus]

Can't remember where I read it but obviously the guys from Jack's day all had this huge leg drive and hip bump to the target because thay all had steep swing planes so needed to shallow out their swings to create width and power.

Now the fashion is to be more rotational therfore a flatter swing plane compliments this and no need to drive legs or laterally move the hips on purpose.
Like a baseball hit at the ground,the torso unwinding from the coil created in the hips,the arms don't have to make a drop into the hip as they simply need to be carried along from the flat plane setup from the top of the backswing back to the position at address.

[iacas]

Can't remember where I read it but obviously the guys from Jack's day all had this huge leg drive and hip bump to the target because thay all had steep swing planes so needed to shallow out their swings to create width and power.

There's less of a weight shift, but I think virtually every teacher in the world would disagree with you about the drive. The hip in particular still drives forward - it keeps going forward (and eventually rotating) right up through impact.

[Brakkus]

There's less of a weight shift, but I think virtually every teacher in the world would disagree with you about the drive. The hip in particular still drives forward - it keeps going forward (and eventually rotating) right up through impact.

Ok but we all remeber the pics of past players with that reverse C in the back when in the finish position an indicator of a big slide forward while trying to hold oneself behind the ball.

In your opinion looking at more of those straight back finishes is the drive a by product of the extreme rotation that guys like Immelman get.It seems to me that everything is pulled around by a fast rotating torso and not because the hips and legs were engaged more aggressively first?

[osean79]

If your swing was upright before, and it has flattened out since your lesson, does that mean you still have a slightly upright swing plane? or do you mean that your swing plane is very flat now? If your swing plane is slightly upright, compared to being perfectly on plane, it should be alright, unless you want to draw all your shots all the time. Flatter swings tend to draw the ball.

[beachbreak]

The one that feels most natural to you. You can hone either type.

[verse214]

If your swing was upright before, and it has flattened out since your lesson, does that mean you still have a slightly upright swing plane? or do you mean that your swing plane is very flat now? If your swing plane is slightly upright, compared to being perfectly on plane, it should be alright, unless you want to draw all your shots all the time. Flatter swings tend to draw the ball.

after working on my swing drill to get myself to hit the ball from the inside, my plane turned flat to the point where my right elbow and tricep stay close to my right side (with some separation at the top). I definitely draw the ball a lot more now and will hook when hitting poorly.

You know how "they" tell you to make sure both of your elbows are pointing directly at the ground at the top of your swing? well my elbows are pointing towards the ground but when you see this "tip" along with a photo, you usually see a golfer at the top of his backswing with his forearms forming the legs of an isosceles triangle with the base of the triangle (if there were one) parallel with the ground... my swing is not upright enough to make this triangle.. why doesn't anyone swing as flat as Ben Hogan anymore? Even shorter guys don't seem to swing that flat..

[wannabe]

Ive been tranistioning to a more flat swing for the last few months. I used to be very upright. I like the results so far even though i havent been playing well latley. Im not a tall guy (5'11) so i feel the flatter swing is just fine for my height. And a flatter swing seems easier to control, and it feels more compact.

me exactly, except I'll go further and say that my inconsistency increases the more vertical I get. Flatter swing definitely has me more on plane, more consistent at impact, and more power.

Regarding the Hogan vs. Nicklaus comparison, my first thought about these two is that Nicklaus was probably a head taller than Hogan (I think), so almost by default Hogan's swing would tend flatter and Nicklaus' would tend toward more vertical. Bottom line, isn't this thread just a re-casting of the one-plane vs. two-plane discussion?

[verse214]

Bottom line, isn't this thread just a re-casting of the one-plane vs. two-plane discussion?

I don't believe the plane discussion to be as simple as upright v. flat. Plus people have a million different definitions about what one-plane really is so it's not something i concern myself with.

I'm starting to see that I shouldn't concern myself with upright v. flat too much either.... Are any of you flat swingers? As in flat to the point where your right elbow stays close to your side?

[chaptowngolfteam]

That would be me, my swing has my left arm way below my right shoulder at the top of my swing. I recently changed my swing to this and noticed a greater increase in consistency, higher ball flight, and much more control over the direction of my ball. It has been working so far, and I will keep it until something goes wrong. I typically change my swing at least 1-3 times per month. But this swing has lasted about 2 months.

[verse214]

That would be me, my swing has my left arm way below my right shoulder at the top of my swing. I recently changed my swing to this and noticed a greater increase in consistency, higher ball flight, and much more control over the direction of my ball. It has been working so far, and I will keep it until something goes wrong. I typically change my swing at least 1-3 times per month. But this swing has lasted about 2 months.

That's really great to hear especially from a 7 handicap.... how long does it take you to adjust to swing changes whenever you put your self through them?

[CalBoomer]

That would be me, my swing has my left arm way below my right shoulder at the top of my swing. I recently changed my swing to this and noticed a greater increase in consistency, higher ball flight, and much more control over the direction of my ball. It has been working so far, and I will keep it until something goes wrong. I typically change my swing at least 1-3 times per month. But this swing has lasted about 2 months.

Had almost the exact same experience. Hank Haney consistently emphasizes that too vertical a swing is a major cause of slices and unwanted fading. A more horizontal swing has (almost) eliminated these problems for me. I also hit many fewer fat shots.

[chaptowngolfteam]

That's really great to hear especially from a 7 handicap.... how long does it take you to adjust to swing changes whenever you put your self through them?

It really depends how drastic a swing change. It can be anywhere from when I cock my wrists, to speeding it up, slowing it down, changing my plane, etc. Usually I can tell right away if it will work for me or not. I try and take certain parts from professionals swings, and put it to my swing. I am a great watch, learn, and repeat learner. If something doesn't work, I will just find another thing to change. I have done this for about 8-9 months(time I have been seriously playing), but now, my swing is the simplest it can be. Kind of like AK, as soon as I cock my wrists, I just turn. Nothing less, nothing more.