Handicaps and Tournaments

[iacas]

I have three "tournament" scores listed under my GHIN account (101923 if anyone cares to look). By comparing the dates, I've determined that they come from our club's member-guests. The one for May 10 was listed as an 84 - about four strokes higher than my highest score, and well above my 5-ish index.

I've just sent an email to my head pro that basically states that I don't believe I have any tournament scores. Member-guests with two-man or four-man teams should not count because, in both instances, only half of the team's scores count. Here's a section of what I wrote:

For one, I pick up when out of a hole. I play with people who get a lot more strokes than I do, and given that, I employ an entirely different playing strategy when playing on a team of four (or even two) - going at more difficult pins if my partners are safe for a good score, etc. Sometimes the risk pays off, but most often it doesn't.

What do you guys think? Should member-guests such as these (where only half the team's scores count) count as "tournaments" or should individuals be required to play everything out (no pickups), play for individual scores (member-guests only give out skins, not individual low gross or net), and not have teammates with which to strategize in order to constitute a "tournament"?

Quite honestly, I'm mostly ticked off about it because I don't have a clue where the scores listed come from. As it stands, it looks like I'm a poor tournament player, and that's not right. These are just numbers, after all. They don't say "member-guest" on them. They don't say "went for green in two on par 5 because partner receiving two strokes was 45 yards in front of the green in two. They don't say "picked up four times with par putts that didn't matter." I've never even verified my individual member-guest score because it's a team event, not an individual tournament.

[iacas]

BTW, all that I can find that the USGA has to say on the matter includes:

Examples of inter-club competition scores that may be posted as tournament scores when they meet the above conditions are: competitions restricted by age, member-guest competitions, team matches, qualifying rounds for city, state, and national competitions, and competitions conducted by golf associations.

The key words there are, in my opinion,

may be posted - doesn't say "must be." I think that most member-guests dole out individual total score (gross/net) prizes, too, and aren't strictly team-based except individual holes (skins, pin shots on par 3s).

[Everardo]

What do you guys think? Should member-guests such as these (where only half the team's scores count) count as "tournaments" or should individuals be required to play everything out (no pickups), play for individual scores (member-guests only give out skins, not individual low gross or net), and not have teammates with which to strategize in order to constitute a "tournament"?

Unless it's a best ball tournament or the tournament hosts require all putts to be holed out then NO you're scores shouldn't have been posted and I'd be pissed too.

Conceded/Unfinished holes are covered by the USGA but sounds like who ever posted your scores didn't know your game or what they were doing at the time. On a somewhat similar note, my course had a problem last year with players posting their own scores and not using Equitable Stroke Control .

[NCGolfer]

I'll only post scores for rounds that I hole everything out on. In member-guest tournaments, nobody 'requires' that we post our scores because of the conditions. I've been able to post a couple of those scores because I did hole out all my shots, but like Erik said, how do you account for a differing style of play?

My big beef with tournaments at my course is that they put the gold (back) tees WAY up and then I have to post a gold score, thereby killing my handicap...and these are the same people that wonder why we get killed in interclub matches.

[iacas]

My pro wrote back to me and said this:

The USGA recommends that all scores be posted. On any hole that you do not complete you should take your "most likely" score. For example; If you have a two foot putt left for a four, you should take a four for posting purposes. If you had a twenty foot putt, you would probably two putt so you take a five. Tournament scores are very important for handicap purposes.

That's just dumb. Furthermore, page 27 of our Chip Shots says that "winner(s)" must be identified, and we don't have individual winners, only team winners, so I could argue (and have done so) that we fail to meet the conditions for individual tournament scores for handicap purposes in our member-guests.

If they would give out individual prizes (low gross and/or net), then it'd be satisfied. But knowing they don't, my strategy (and thus scoring) changes.

[Everardo]

Especially since these scores are going to RAISE your handicap. Hopefully you get the scores removed or adjusted at least

[iacas]

Especially since these scores are going to RAISE your handicap. Hopefully you get the scores removed or adjusted at least

Well, they're not too likely to do that because they won't be counted. Worst they would do is bump another slightly higher score into the "best 10 of last 20" consideration.

I wouldn't care if they raised my handicap up or down. I just feel that, since they're not representative of my individual play, they aren't true scores. It was a team event. I wasn't playing for an individual score. Imagine if I had pulled off all the risky shots I'd not normally have attempted and shot 65 - that isn't representative of how I'd play either (though, if that should ever happen, it might certainly prompt me to CHANGE how I play, heh heh). It boils down to this: they're not representative of my individual ability and score because our member-guests are team events with NO individual component (prizes). I've made another request that they be removed. I don't plan to play in any future member-guests with partners I don't know very well, but if they're not removed, it will simply cement my decision to not play in them.