Johnny Miller: "Tiger is a very good putter, but not a great putter."

[Leftygolfer]

Another person that buys into the fallacy that if a person is the best player than they must be the best at everything. The reality is the sum of all aspects of Tiger's game make him the best.

I don't think he is the best at everything. But I am sure everyone on the PGA tour says tiger is the best clutch putter in the game. And that equals the best putter.

Who is a better putter on tour? And out of all the major wins, was he ever out of the top 5 in putting for the week? I am not going to look it up, I don't care. But to say anyone else on tour has a better putter or recovery ability is not accurate.

[saltman]

I don't think he is the best at everything. But I am sure everyone on the PGA tour says tiger is the best clutch putter in the game. And that equals the best putter.

That's where the faulty logic comes from. While I agree he is the best clutch putter, I believe that only to be the case because he does so many other things well to give himself so many chances to make a clutch putt. He has missed a few as well, but people rarely remember.

[Leftygolfer]

That's where the faulty logic comes from. While I agree he is the best clutch putter, I believe that only to be the case because he does so many other things well to give himself so many chances to make a clutch putt. He has missed a few as well, but people rarely remember.

Then who is a better putter on tour? I have heard quotes from other tour players saying the one thing that makes him so good is his putter. How many short putts have you seen him miss? I can't think of many. If he has less than 10 feet in contention, it is almost a lock that he will make it.

[saltman]

Then who is a better putter on tour? I have heard quotes from other tour players saying the one thing that makes him so good is his putter. How many short putts have you seen him miss? I can't think of many. If he has less than 10 feet in contention, it is almost a lock that he will make it.

You haven't been watching him. His putter has been sketchy in several tournaments, most notably Quail Hollow where he ended his chance to win with a late 3 putt par after driving the green. He didn't putt extremely well at The Masters either.

Who is a better putter on tour? I think the two best right now are Brian Gay and Luke Donald.

[CG031]

You haven't been watching him. His putter has been sketchy in several tournaments, most notably Quail Hollow where he ended his chance to win with a late 3 putt par after driving the green. He didn't putt extremely well at The Masters either.

You're really suggesting Brian Gay and Luke Donald are better putters right now than Tiger Woods? Are you insane?

Gay has putted well, obviously all year because he's been winning but Luke Donald isn't a great putter and not even on the same level as Tiger Woods in putting.

[RC]

There is hesitation posting this, but it is my own evaluation and observation, and perhaps it will be interesting to some of you. Don't read anything into it other than the idea that I don't think Tiger is the best natural putter ever. He is surely a great putter, and his mental toughness to get the ball in the hole is fierce.

Tiger is an amazing putter, and can get streaky great -- almost unbelieveablly hot. When the confidence is high, he makes them. But he is (or was) not a naturally great putter compared to many others. Tiger's putting is an example of his strong mind power to execute a putt under pressure, but I never thought he was a naturally great putter -- even though his overall short game is about as good as it gets. He hits a few weak putts, where he reverts to some of his old faults.

When he won at Augusta in 1997, some of us who played where he practiced were very, very impressed with his performance on the greens -- he blew the field away that year. The thing is, he would practice on the same green with us, and hit lots of what we thought (or I thought, anyway) were poor putts. Maybe he was just experimenting, I can't read minds. His Augusta performance was in part due to his ability to focus and execute -- maybe a higher skill than just being a pure putting genius.

When practicing, some times he would not release, sometimes he would hood the putter going back and sort of ooch the putt toward the hole. I thought there were better putters on the practice green than Tiger. but he worked very hard, and obviously got much better. Still, even today (or recently) watching Tiger on TV missing the occasional putt, you can tell he reverts to some of his old stroke issues. He is human.

I've played with Crenshaw in his prime, when he was the age Tiger was when he won his first Masters, and you never remember seeing Ben's stroke break down (although I'm sure it did from time to time.) Don't get me wrong, Crenshaw might blast it by 10 feet but that seemed to be nothing to him. He absolutely knew he would make it coming back, and he almost always did. Crenshaw in his prime was a truly great putter. His last Master's win had exactly zero three putts. I remember playing with Ben and thinking he was always going to hit the hole, but maybe we would get lucky and it would lip out -- distance did not seem to matter that much. Crenshaw truly was a great putter.

Consider this a hacker's view of putters, but a hacker who has known a lot of great putters.

[laconic517]

since some people disagree that making putts when they count is what makes a person the best putter......id like to hear what exactly makes crenshaw or anyone else a better putter than tiger?


Are they more consistant? Do they avoid 3 putts? Do they never miss the short ones? Do they constantly burn the hole? Seriously..... putting is about making it when it matters and how consistantly you do it. Tiger has been streaky lately but that is the nature of the game. Im sure those 10 birdies a round crenshaw and phil make since they are money from 30 ft everytime make them better putters.

Saw post above me to.

What does stroke have to do with anything? The result is what matters. If a stroke breaks down but the putt goes in and it goes in because the player naturally corrected it.....who cares?

[RC]

Tiger putts a lot from closer to the hole due to his superb short game -- he recovers remarkably, putting himself is position to save pars and make birdie fours on par fives. However, if you take his statistics thus far in 2009, for putts after hitting the green in regulation, he is tied for 49th on tour. So at least for the time being, he is a very good putter but not the greatest among his peers, which was my point. I never questioned that there are not times of high confidence when Tiger seems to almost will the ball in the hole, as well as anyone I have ever seen -- but he is not always at this high level. Of course no one is. Tiger seems surprised when he misses it (even when he does not make the best of strokes and it is clearly a stroke or read issue.) Ben was more of an "accept it immediately" type putter. When he hit it, he knew (or sure seemed to.) Later in life he was not quite so uncanny. But there was a time when it was truly erie, and I consider that a truly great putter. I freely admit, Tiger's great putts fall into the erie catagory as well -- memorable, almost unbelieveable. I just don't think he is a truly great natural putter, he has made himself a great putter, despite inconsistencies.

I'm a Tiger fan. But has been said, in effect, it is his total game that makes him the best player of today.

[M2R]

This part really bugged me in the book, Miller states

I didn't read the book so I'm relying on the quote as being accurate.

But honestly after reading through this thread and then going back and re-reading the original quote, I don't have any issues with what Johnny wrote. He said Tiger is a very good putter and later an extremely good putter, I totally agree. He thinks Tiger became extremely good through hard work and mastery of sound technique. If someone were to say that about anything I ever did, I would take that as about the highest compliment I could think of. But in his opinion somehow Tiger isn't (wasn't) a "great" putter. Since I don't know how Johnny defines "greatness" in terms of putting, I don't really know what he was trying to convey so I just shrug my shoulders and say OK and I'm fine with that too. Personally I think he is totally wrong about Tiger having difficulty in middle age but that's his opinion and considering his background I can understand how he might come to that conclusion and I'm fine with that too.

[CG031]

I didn't read the book so I'm relying on the quote as being accurate.

Yeah, it's accurate. I typed exactly the text that was in the book, had it open while I was typing it into the post.

But, yes, I understand what he is saying but for me it simply comes down to who is making those big 10 footers at the end of the tournaments on Sunday's and Tiger has done that time and time again he makes those 10 footers when he needs to. Maybe he doesn't have the greatest touch or feel on the greens like Johnny is saying, but I still feel like that doesn't matter if your getting it in the hole at the most crucial times.

[ioaz81]

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/stati...extOrder=false


I mean, you can go look at that. Right now Tiger is 50th in the putting average rankings. I am sure that will change this weekend. But I agree with everyone saying that its the complete game that makes you a great player. Take any sport: boxing, soccer, baseball. THe player has to have ALL the essentials to be great. If you slack in one...others make up for it. That is how it works a lot of the time.

[saltman]

There is hesitation posting this, but it is my own evaluation and observation, and perhaps it will be interesting to some of you. Don't read anything into it other than the idea that I don't think Tiger is the best natural putter ever. He is surely a great putter, and his mental toughness to get the ball in the hole is fierce.

You put it much more elgantly than I did, but this is exactly what I was trying to say. Not at ALL a slam against Tiger. I would pick him to make the clutch putt before anyone else, but my decision would not be based on his stroke but rather his iron will.

[saltman]

You're really suggesting Brian Gay and Luke Donald are better putters right now than Tiger Woods? Are you insane?

Dude, I am not making this up. Those guys are pure putters. Luke Donald isn't a great putter???....you cannot be ranked #1 on tour in putts per GIR and not be a great putter. BTW, Brian Gay is ranked 8th and they are both in the top 5 in putts per round as well. You can be near the top of one list by being an average putter because of less than stellar ball striking, but you CANNOT be at or near the top of BOTH lists without being a phenomenal putter.

[RC]

Tiger was the man today at Congressional, as was AK (did not get to see much of AK.) Both had 27 putts. Tiger looked completely natural rolling the ball and was clearly in a zone.

One way to know when he is feeling it is that he still has minor variations in his strokes and he naturally adapts between them -- or it sure looks that way. Several putts were more like his old back and then forward with the putter opening up a little so it stayed very square on the follow through. But then he also hit some where he clearly released and the toe passed the heel on the follow through. In both cased he was smooth as silk. When he is putting like that, he is a natural ball roller and simply strokes what he feels will pour the ball in the hole -- he had good speed on several putts, a sure sign of confidence. It was reported as his best putting day in about a year.

[SpacklersEdge]

Tiger was the man today at Congressional, as was AK (did not get to see much of AK.) Both had 27 putts. Tiger looked completely natural rolling the ball and was clearly in a zone.

He really did look good today. Every time he was over one, it seemed you would have been shocked had he missed. He made a 30+ footer on one hole in particular, and he made it look like a 6 footer. Maybe he was motivated by one of the young guys setting the course record in the morning round?

[CG031]

Yeah, Tiger's putts were all nailing the center of the hole - truly a great putting performance today!

[SpacklersEdge]

Today on the WGC broadcast, Nick Faldo said falt out that Tiger was the greatest putter of all time. So Sir Nick thinks Tiger is second to none, but Johnny doesn't even think Tiger is in the "great" category.

[Cussin hacker]

Johnny is opinionated for sure and sharp on many things, but sometimes he puts his foot square in his mouth. This was one of those times.

Tiger is money on have to have putts. He's a little off this year from being out 8 mos. Look at the last 10 years and see were he ranks in putting. Best all time ?? prolly is!

By the way I think Tiger has his eyes on Jacks win total this year. I say yes.