Still No Tiger

[Mr_Slice]

As of this morning, it doesn't look like Tiger plans on playing in the Pebble Beach Pro-Am this week. Am I the only one that thinks he should be playing? It's just such a great course, I can't understand why he feels he needs two and three week breaks between tournaments. Maybe I'm being too hard on him, since he does have a family now and all. But it sure would be nice to see he and Vijay battle for that #1 ranking this week, at this course.

[iacas]

I don't think he could have overtaken Vijay this week unless Vijay MCed and he won.

They say it on Grey Goose 19th Hole all the time, so y'all can say it with me: "independent contractors."

Tiger's goal is to win majors. He's won a major at Pebble. Why should he play? Because you want him to? I don't know if that factors into his decision-making much... "what does Aaron White (or anyone) want?" Unless that anyone is "Eldrick Woods."

I wish Tiger played more often, but given the choice between Tiger playing at his best 15 times per year, and Tiger playing so-so golf 25 times per year, I (and I would guess Tiger) will take the former.

[gas_can]

The AT&T; is one of my favorite non-major tournaments of the year, and I too wish Tiger would play. Remember that for three days this is a pro-am tournament. You only play at Pebble Beach twice, and that's if you make the cut. The other two days are played at Spy Glass Hill and Poppy Hills whcih are much easier courses and give the tournament a real shoot out feel. If you look at Tiger's yearly schedule, he usually avoids shoot outs where everyone goes low like the Bob Hope, John Deere, Honda Classic, etc.

Also, at normal tournaments, everyone plays Pebble Beach all four days, however, here it's quite possible that the wind could pick up on day 1 where Tiger's at Pebble Beach and shoots -1 while everyone else is scoring -8 or -9 on the other courses. The next day the sun's shining and people are going low at Pebble Beach and Tiger ends up looking bad to the casual golf fan. . .

One more reason he may skip it is the strong amateur presence at the AT&T.; I think this has to play a role in his decision somehow. They used to call this tournament the "clambake" and for three days there are galleries who come basically to see celebrities and people are screaming and laughing and the tournament definately gets a more laid back feel.

Obviously I don't know Tiger, but as a pretty competiive guy myself I can understand how these all factor into his decision somehow. One of the good things about Tiger is that he does change up his schedule a lot from year to year and does a good job of making sure people across the country get to see him.

[Ben]

Am I the only one that thinks he should be playing? It's just such a great course,

My thoughts exactly. He and the other nutjob Phil Mickleson who isn't going to play at Riviera in two weeks. It's Pebble Freakin Beach and Riviera holy crap Country Club. No matter the importance of the event, how can anyone pass up the chance to play at two of the most renowned courses in golf? Wackos I tell ya!

If or when I'm ever pro, those are two events I'd play 'till death!

[pahonix]

One more reason he may skip it is the strong amateur presence at the AT&T.; I think this has to play a role in his decision somehow. They used to call this tournament the "clambake" and for three days there are galleries who come basically to see celebrities and people are screaming and laughing and the tournament definately gets a more laid back feel.

Maybe this is true, but Tiger has only *not* played the AT&T; the last two years. From '97-'02 he was there, and even won it in 2000 (what DIDN'T he win in 2000).

[gas_can]

My thoughts exactly. He and the other nutjob Phil Mickleson who isn't going to play at Riviera in two weeks. It's Pebble Freakin Beach and Riviera holy crap Country Club. No matter the importance of the event, how can anyone pass up the chance to play at two of the most renowned courses in golf? Wackos I tell ya!

Found an interesting quote from DLIII about why many players are beginning to skip many tournaments on the West Coast Swing, especially Riviera:

Riviera Country Club might be one of the crown jewels of courses on the PGA Tour, but because of a revamped West Coast swing, it's no longer a must-play for some top players."It used to be there were two or three good tournaments on the West Coast, now there are seven or eight maybe," said Davis Love III, who plans to skip the Nissan Open this year. "In the old days, you would play Pebble and Riviera and just throw another one or two in there."

[Mr_Slice]

I don't think he could have overtaken Vijay this week unless Vijay MCed and he won.

The great thing about being a fan is that I don't have to care what his reasons are. I have the luxury of making demands that will never be heard just because it's something I want, and not necessarily what is best for him.

There are roughly 50 weeks of tournaments and events that can be played on Tour this year. (I may have miscounted because some tourneys run the same week and well, its a long list anyway.) Is it that much to ask that golfers play half of those tournaments? So they travel a lot and it's hard work... okay. I get four weeks off a year, which means I work at least 11 months out of the year. All I want to see is these guys work for 6 months. Gosh, am I really being that unrealistic?

[iacas]

The great thing about being a fan is that I don't have to care what his reasons are. I have the luxury of making demands that will never be heard just because it's something I want, and not necessarily what is best for him.

Perhaps that's what separates the "fans" from the "intelligent fans"?

There are roughly 50 weeks of tournaments and events that can be played on Tour this year. (I may have miscounted because some tourneys run the same week and well, its a long list anyway.)

Well, there are 52 weeks in the year, so... I'll leave you to do that math, yes...

Is it that much to ask that golfers play half of those tournaments? So they travel a lot and it's hard work... okay. I get four weeks off a year, which means I work at least 11 months out of the year. All I want to see is these guys work for 6 months. Gosh, am I really being that unrealistic?

Here's a simple response, Aaron. You get weekends off. And when a player isn't playing in a tournament, it's not nearly the same as your four weeks of vacation. They're still "working," they're just not doing so where you can see them on your TV set.

Vijay (admittedly he's not the norm) can't take a single day off. He probably hasn't taken 3 off consecutively in a decade. Tiger is right up there - three days off in a row may be his limit, and that's on special occasions like honeymoons and whatnot. I'll ask again: would you rather see Tiger play well in 15 tournaments/year or play poorly in 25? Kiran - nice quote from DLIII. It's true too - there are lots of great west coast courses.

[Mr_Slice]

I understand fully why they aren't playing, I'm simply saying that I don't have to agree with it as a fan, since it isn't my life in question.

You are absolutely correct about the time off aspect for players. I'll never agree with you, though. In my opinion, if you're getting paid millions of dollars to entertain and play a game, then do it the entire season. Because the "season" is so long, I have lowered my expectations to only half of the tournaments. If Tiger can't play well in half of the tournaments, then he needs to get better. Simple as that.

The money comes from the fans ultimately. Sponsorships, endorsements, ticket prices, etc. It just bugs me that most professional athletes take their "job" so selfishly. If it weren't for people like us that watch them and pay to see them (and buy there DVD collections), they would be playing golf for free on the weekends and working in an office somewhere just like me.

[iacas]

You are absolutely correct about the time off aspect for players. I'll never agree with you, though. In my opinion, if you're getting paid millions of dollars to entertain and play a game, then do it the entire season... Simple as that.

Guess what? Golfers don't make money when they're not playing. They're not "paid millions of dollars" the weeks they don't play. It's not like some first baseman in the National League plays only 1/3 of the games yet collects a full $5M/year salary. Golfers are paid to play.

So your whole premise is wrong. "If you're getting paid millions of dollars to entertain and play a game" implies that they're paid regardless, and they choose not to play (yet still collect your money, as a fan). That's poppycock. Tiger is paid when he plays (and makes the cut, which for him, is just about every time). He's not paid when he doesn't play. Independent contractors. You wish Tiger played more, and you're trying to come up with reasons to justify your position. It's fine to simply want to see a great player more often. That's your reason. But please don't make up other reasons to force onto players.

The money comes from the fans ultimately.

Some of it does. Part of it does. Less than you might think - a great deal of that money goes to charity, to paying expenses, etc.

Sponsorships, endorsements, ticket prices, etc.

Sponsorships and Endorsements don't come out of the fan's pockets, Aaron. They come out of TaylorMade's, Titleist's, etc. pockets.

It just bugs me that most professional athletes take their "job" so selfishly.

It's starting to bother me that you take your "fan" status so selfishly. Tiger plays when he wants, and you've still yet to answer the question I asked: would you rather see Tiger play well 15 times or poorly 25 times?

Tiger knows what's best for him. He wants to win majors, and he wants to perform well. If he sits out a tournament he doesn't like in order to prepare for Augusta, well, I'd rather see him play well at Augusta than burn out by playing the FBR Open. Tiger has no obligation to you to play the FBR Open because you bought his DVD. Or because you play his game on your PS2. Tiger's paid when he plays. He's not paid (not with any of your money) when he doesn't play. Golf ain't like baseball where people are guaranteed to get $5M/year despite their performance, the # of times they play, or injuries. If Tiger didn't play, he'd earn $0 in prize money. Golfers are Independent Contractors .

[Mr_Slice]

Sponsorships and Endorsements don't come out of the fan's pockets, Aaron. They come out of TaylorMade's, Titleist's, etc. pockets.

And who buys Taylormade and Titleist products, Erik? The money ultimately DOES come from the fan. The fans are who buy the products, which in turn means the company can pay for endorsement and sponsorship in order to get more fans to buy the product.

If you want me to say that I just want him to play more and I have no reason, fine. I'm not going to answer your questions with the choices you're giving me, though. I want to see Tiger play well in at least half of the tournaments held during the year. That's what I want. But you are right. They don't get paid unless they make the cut. So that was an unfair argument by me earlier. I retract that.

[iacas]

And who buys Taylormade and Titleist products, Erik? The money ultimately DOES come from the fan. The fans are who buy the products, which in turn means the company can pay for endorsement and sponsorship in order to get more fans to buy the product.

That's asinine. You don't buy Nike products because you want to "support Tiger Woods." You buy Nike products because you want to buy a Nike product.

You've got a critical misunderstanding of money flow if you think your money pays for Tiger Woods' sponsorship deal. Somewhere around one-tenth to one-quarter of a cent on the dollar in sporting goods sales goes towards paying sponsorships, which in turn are part of marketing and advertising (about 2-4 cents on the dollar, depending on the company). Where do the other 98 cents go? Manufacturing. Shipping. Pension plans. Lighting and heat. Rent. Payroll. All the mundane bills that both manufacturers and retailers have to pay. And since you're given a choice, the point becomes moot. You're not being promised something and being ripped off. Neither Nike nor Tiger say "buy Ignite drivers and I'll play more." Nike paid Tiger what they wanted to pay Tiger. They had a choice. You have that same choice: buy Nike or buy Snake Eyes. Plus, you don't buy directly from Nike, remember. I could pretty easily argue that none of your money goes towards paying Tiger Woods. I could argue that all of it goes towards The Golf Warehouse, Dick's Sporting Goods, or the store from which you purchase your gear. They pay Nike. They're contributing (in however small an amount) to Tiger's sponsorship.

If you want me to say that I just want him to play more and I have no reason, fine. I'm not going to answer your questions with the choices you're giving me, though. I want to see Tiger play well in at least half of the tournaments held during the year. That's what I want.

That's simply unreasonable, Aaron, wanting him to play well in half of the tournaments. Vijay Singh does it (though he has some bad weeks too). Tiger, if he could, might. He's stated that he plays a pick-and-choose schedule so he can focus on what he wants to do: win majors, chase Jack, and become as the best ever.

You don't become the best ever by winning the FBR Open. Tiger is also an individual, a person, and an individual. I think it's disrespectful to make demands of someone who's promised you nothing. If he wants to relax at home, why shouldn't he be able to? How would you feel if Tiger personally demanded you work 50 weeks/year instead of 48? It's a free market society, Aaron. Best kind in the world. And this is the way it works.

But you are right. They don't get paid unless they make the cut. So that was an unfair argument by me earlier. I retract that.

OK.

[Mr_Slice]

That's simply unreasonable, Aaron, wanting him to play well in half of the tournaments. Vijay Singh does it (though he has some bad weeks too). Tiger, if he could, might. He's stated that he plays a pick-and-choose schedule so he can focus on what he wants to do: win majors, chase Jack, and become as the best ever.

Noted, regarding money flow from sponsorships.

I personally feel winning a tournament is important. I wouldn't have much respect for a guy that played in only the four Majors and one won of them. Doesn't really mean much to me.

[iacas]

I personally feel winning a tournament is important. I wouldn't have much respect for a guy that played in only the four Majors and one won of them. Doesn't really mean much to me.

The normal tournament wins come. There aren't 15 majors in a year.

Phil Mickelson was at best a "good" golfer before the beginning of last year. Plenty (22 or so) of "regular" tournament wins. Now people can begin to talk about how "great" he is or may be. But majors are what people of Tiger's caliber are after. Regular tournament wins are nice, but they want majors. They want greatness. So their schedule is geared for four events per year. Great players aren't driven by money; they're driven by history (and making it). FIGJAM (Phil Mickelson) plays in a few more tournaments per year than Tiger, yet I can barely stand the guy. He's done less with a lot than many other people I can think of, and I don't respect or admire him for it.

[gas_can]

This is kind of an interesting argument, since when Tiger was flopping in the majors early in 03 and 04 (before he publicisized his swing change) EVERYONE was talking about how he needed to get back to playing his usual 25 tournaments a year to get into proper rhythm for the majors. Interesting argument although it seems to have dissapeared now that he's revealed his swing change.

I also think it's important to note that golf is unlike any other sport in the world in that it requires complete focus for very long streches of time. Preparing for a rinky-dink tournament at my golf club is pretty intensive in terms of practice and focus required, I can't imagine what Tiger and Vijay go through. Once they step on the 1st tee, they don't get a break until they step off the 18th green. It's got to be pretty draining to do that for four straight days, I don't know how Vijay plays in his usual 25+ tournaments a year.

Also, on golf central last night, Brian Hammonds (I think) was talking about just how sick Tiger was, and that after he played in Kapalua he got hit with two successive flu bugs, and the week before Buick he didn't hit a single shot until the day of the tournament. Perhaps that's a reason for his extended lay off????

[gas_can]

Here's an interesting article on Tom Pernice Jr.'s reaction to Tiger not playing at the AT&T.; Peter Jacobsen also thinks that more pros should be playing this week and at the Hope. Interesting opinions, especially in context of this debate.