Conceding Putts/Counting Strokes

[TheLauncher]

I'm not sure if this questions pertains to rules or etiquette, but here is the situation: in a team best ball match play a player from team A concedes a putt for a player on team B. The player from team B proceeds to strike the concede putt, missing the hole for a two putt and team A assesses two strokes.

Now my league partner insists that one the put was conceded, the one put score stands. But I contend that once a ball is played, it must count toward the final score. Who is correct in this situation? And what is there in the rules or your experience of etiquette that applies to my question?

[denver_nuggs_15]

I think it's technically a two shot penalty. Once you're given a putt, you must take it in match play. If you play it out anyway before the hole is over, then it is a two shot penalty added to whatever he/she should have on the hole (putt is given for 4, but played...score is 6).

[alf174]

After the putt/hole/score was conceded. wouldn't the following putt be just a practice putt (which I understand is allowed in match play)?

(ps: I haven't consulted the rule book yet, doing it from memory)

[tjy355]

I think it's technically a two shot penalty. Once you're given a putt, you must take it in match play. If you play it out anyway before the hole is over, then it is a two shot penalty added to whatever he/she should have on the hole (putt is given for 4, but played...score is 6).

Incorrect.

Rule 2-4 "A concession may not be declined or withdrawn" Once the putt is conceded, the score is determined. Strokes made after the concession would be considered practice strokes. Rule 7 applies: "7-2. During Round A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole. Between the play of two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near: (a) the putting green of the hole last played..." Note however, this practice may be prohibited by special condition: "Note 2: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit: (a) practice on or near the putting green of the hole last played, and (b) rolling a ball on the putting green of the hole last played...." Hope this helps. The rules are online you know... http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...and-Decisions/

[fredloves2golf]

I believe the hole is over once the putt has been conceded and any putting after that would be practice, which is permitted.

If you're trying to keep a somewhat accurate score for posting purposes, you have to be honest with yourself on counting how many additional strokes it likely would have taken to complete the hole. For example, if you're 2 ft away, you can call that one more stroke to hole out. If you're 25 ft away, that's likely 2 strokes.

[iacas]

What's the status of Player A's partner's ball? That's a critical piece of missing information. And is the other team done playing, too? Does the concession truly wrap up "play" on that hole, or is there still play to be conducted?

[TheLauncher]

Ok, so I owe the disgruntled player form team B an apology.

I guess my instincts just told me that once a ball is played, it must count. Now I have something to write the USGA about. ;)

[TheLauncher]

Iacas,

In this case team A had not finished the hole. They had a putt of lesser length than team B, subsequently made, that would have tied the hole if two strokes had not been counted after the conceded putt.

[tulefog]

Since this was best ball play, I think it matters whether the putt conceded to Team B was the first putt or second putt. Often, a putt may be conceded where one player already has a high score so that his putt is not used by the other team member to help read the green. If the first putt was conceded, I believe play by Team B would not have been completed and therefore practice would not be permitted until the second team member had also completed the hole. I did not find this in the rule book, but I believe this is correct. If someone is aware of any authority for this, I would love to know.

[tjy355]

Iacas,

This changes the situation because practice is allowed only on the "hole last played." If the hole is still in play, that practice putt may have cost team B the hole.

[alf174]

This changes the situation because practice is allowed only on the "hole last played." If the hole is still in play, that practice putt may have cost team A the hole.

Don't you mean Team B would lose the hole? Didn't the OP say Team B took the practice putt before Team A finished?

[tjy355]

Don't you mean Team B would loose the hole? Didn't the OP say Team B took the practice putt before Team A finished?

My bad... I meant Team B would lose the hole (edited post), HOWEVER:

Here is a decision from rule 7: 2-4/6 Putting Out After Concession of Stroke Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole. But it sounds like team B had completed the hole, the practice putt would not have assisted the partner, so at this point, I'm not sure there is any penalty.

[MiniMoe]

Was this match play or stroke play. If it is stroke play, a putt can not be conceded. I don't care how many times you said it, the other team must finish the hole. If not there is a penalty involved for moving the ball, the ball must be replaced and the hole finished. In match play, once a hole is conceded, the score is determined and him putting at the hole is incidental. In true etiquette, if a putt is conceded, pick it up and if you want to putt it anyway, allow the other team to finish the hole before you do practice. I have never seen practice putting made against the rules by local rule for match play. In stroke play, by local rule a tournament committee can prohibit practice putting and chipping after the play of a hole.

[Ignorant]

My bad... I meant Team B would lose the hole (edited post), HOWEVER:

Having read this thread twice I could not find if the other member of Team B had already completed the hole. If yes, then the concession stands and no penalties. If not, then Team B would lose the hole IF the practise putt would have assisted the other member. A mere info of fastness of the green would not constitute 'assistance', the line of these two putts of Team B would have to have been similar.

[alf174]

Was this match play or stroke play. If it is stroke play, a putt can not be conceded. I don't care how many times you said it, the other team must finish the hole. If not there is a penalty involved for moving the ball, the ball must be replaced and the hole finished. In match play, once a hole is conceded, the score is determined and him putting at the hole is incidental. In true etiquette, if a putt is conceded, pick it up and if you want to putt it anyway, allow the other team to finish the hole before you do practice. I have never seen practice putting made against the rules by local rule for match play. In stroke play, by local rule a tournament committee can prohibit practice putting and chipping after the play of a hole.

Read the OP, it was best ball match.

[TexasSR]

Since this was best ball play, I think it matters whether the putt conceded to Team B was the first putt or second putt. Often, a putt may be conceded where one player already has a high score so that his putt is not used by the other team member to help read the green. If the first putt was conceded, I believe play by Team B would not have been completed and therefore practice would not be permitted until the second team member had also completed the hole. I did not find this in the rule book, but I believe this is correct. If someone is aware of any authority for this, I would love to know.

That is the way I have always understood it to be but I can find nothing in the Rules, either,

[dansensel]

Was this match play or stroke play. If it is stroke play, a putt can not be conceded. I don't care how many times you said it, the other team must finish the hole. If not there is a penalty involved for moving the ball, the ball must be replaced and the hole finished. In match play, once a hole is conceded, the score is determined and him putting at the hole is incidental. In true etiquette, if a putt is conceded, pick it up and if you want to putt it anyway, allow the other team to finish the hole before you do practice. I have never seen practice putting made against the rules by local rule for match play. In stroke play, by local rule a tournament committee can prohibit practice putting and chipping after the play of a hole.

Actually, if it is best-ball stoke play competition, a stroke can be conceded according to the handicap manual.

Example 1: A and B are partners in a four-ball stroke play competition. On a hole on which neither player receives a handicap stroke, A lies two, 18 feet from the hole. B lies two, 25 feet from the hole. B holes a putt for a 3. A picks up on the hole, because A cannot better B's score. A records X-4 on the scorecard because 4 is A's most likely score.

and the Rule Book:

Q. A and B are partners in four-ball stroke play. At the 10th hole, A picks up and B holes out in 5 strokes. The marker records a score of 6 for A and a score of 5 for B. The card is returned with these scores recorded. Is any penalty incurred because A-B returned a card containing a score for A at a hole which A did not complete? A. No. Rule 31-7a provides that disqualification of a side under Rule 6-6d applies only when the recorded score of the partner whose score is to count is lower than actually taken. The score recorded for A was not A-B's lower score for the 10th hole. Accordingly, no penalty is applicable.

[Ignorant]

Actually, if it is best-ball stoke play competition, a stroke can be conceded according to the handicap manual.

I think You are mixing things pretty bad. First of all, in stroke play strokes canNOT be conceded, that is against the very principle of Stroke Play (see Rule 3-2). Secondly, none of these examples indicate that a score of a player not having finished the hole in stroke play would have been taken into account when counting the score for the team. Then again, I have learned that USGA has a lot of rules that deviate from those used outside USA so maybe here is another strange exception no based on Rules of Golf.