Open/shut clubface, turn the grip in the hands or take stronger/weaker grip?

[Zeph]

I've been practicing hitting draw and fade lately. I've always tried to hit my irons straight, which I currently do well, but I want better accuracy and to learn how to take parts of the course out of play.

I know the basics of a draw and fade, I'll also give the power fade a try.

My question is regarding the club and hands at address. For a draw, you aim right of the target with the body and close the clubface slightly, so it points more in the direction of the target. There are two ways to achieve this, which should give the same result.

1: After taking the stance, close the clubface and then take a normal grip, which for me is neutral, making the clubface appear shut.
2: After taking the stance, aim the clubface the same way, but take a strong grip. You can hold the grip strong and looking at a square clubface, but if you loosen up and wriggle the hands, the strong grip will turn the clubface shut and the hands will appear more towards neutral.

I have experienced positive and negative things about both.

1: Positive being that the grip feels better, there are no tension in the hands. Negative is that I see the shut clubface, which can make a mental difference.
2: Positive is that the clubface appear square and won't turn over before you start swinging. Negative is that there is more tension in the hands, the feeling of a non-neutral grip. I also experienced that it's very easy to take a too strong grip. The clubface are not angled that many degrees off the stance line, so it's difficult to find the right grip.

Being a slicer and over-the-topper for a long time, I can probably hit a fade intentionally by holding off the release, but I can't consciously release the wrists more to get a draw with a square set-up.

Am I wrong here or does this make any sense at all? I'd like to hear what you think.

[deronsizemore]

I've been practicing hitting draw and fade lately. I've always tried to hit my irons straight, which I currently do well, but I want better accuracy and to learn how to take parts of the course out of play.

I find the easiest way to hit a draw is to always aim the clubface first before taking your stance. Aim the clubface at your target (where you want the ball to finish) and then align your body (shoulders, hips and feet) to the right of the target (where you want the ball to start). When you set up like this, your clubface will be closed relative to your body, so if you simply swing along the line of where your body is aimed, you should produce a draw.

I wouldn't go messing with making your grip stronger or weaker for a special shot. It's too difficult to make a grip change and be consistent with that change on the fly. The grip is one of the most difficult things to change so doing it on a moments notice won't give you consistent results.

[Zeph]

That is the way I feel most comfortable too. However, I like to take my stance and alignment of the body first, aiming left or right, then turn the clubhead when I'm all set. If I first set down the club, I have trouble finding a proper ball position and never feel comfortable with the setup.

[David in FL]

That is the way I feel most comfortable too. However, I like to take my stance and alignment of the body first, aiming left or right, then turn the clubhead when I'm all set. If I first set down the club, I have trouble finding a proper ball position and never feel comfortable with the setup.

Pretty much what I do. I align my body then turn the club to aim the face back to the target line.

The difficulty for many people is then to commit to swinging normally, and fighting the tendency to try to swing back down the target line.

[deronsizemore]

That is the way I feel most comfortable too. However, I like to take my stance and alignment of the body first, aiming left or right, then turn the clubhead when I'm all set. If I first set down the club, I have trouble finding a proper ball position and never feel comfortable with the setup.

This is what I used to do as well until a pro (who played in a few tour events) corrected me. Basically what it comes down too is if you don't get the clubface pointed at your target FIRST, you'll never hit the ball toward your target consistently.

When you align your body first, it's too difficult to set your clubface down at a target way out in the distance and have it pointed correctly with any accuracy. The best way I've found to get aligned properly and get my club pointed at the target correctly majority of the time is this: Start off behind the ball looking down the target line. Pick out a intermediate target (spot about a foot in front of your ball; tee, divot, blade of grass, etc) that is in line with you target. Walk up to your ball and place the clubface down behind the ball and pointed at your intermediate target on the ground (it's much easier to align your clubface correctly to a target a foot in front of your than it is 300 yards in front of you. With your feet together and your clubface pointed at the target, turn your head and look at your target. While looking at your target, take your stance. Your instincts will take over and you'll line everything up much more consistently when you take your stance while looking at your target (and not your feet or the ball). You'll also instinctively stand the correct distance from the ball (rather than looking down and guessing at what is right). Most higher handicap players cannot line their body up to the target correctly with any consistently. They usually line up way right or way left and as a result when they set their clubface down at "the target" it's always misaligned because their body is out of whack and at that point you've got both your body and clubface not pointed in the correct direction which leaves you wondering why you can't hit the ball where you want. When pointing your clubface first at your intermediate target, you are guaranteed to at least have one variable correct even if your body isn't perfect and have a much better chance at advancing your ball in the general vicinity of the target. What the majority of pros on tour, they all align their clubface first before taking their stance. Just makes more sense.

[David in FL]

This is what I used to do as well until a pro (who played in a few tour events) corrected me. Basically what it comes down too is if you don't get the clubface pointed at your target FIRST, you'll never hit the ball toward your target consistently.

So you're aligning the clubface, but not gripping the club until you take your stance? I'll give it a try. Thks.

[goblue107501]

This is what I used to do as well until a pro (who played in a few tour events) corrected me. Basically what it comes down too is if you don't get the clubface pointed at your target FIRST, you'll never hit the ball toward your target consistently.

A few years ago when I took lessons my pro told me this was the very first step. The clubface has to be pointed at the target.

After I do that, I open or close my stance. The rest of it I control with my hands at the bottom of the swing. Probably not the best way, but it works for me.

[deronsizemore]

So you're aligning the clubface, but not gripping the club until you take your stance? I'll give it a try. Thks.

You can either grip it or not grip it first. I don't pay much attention to that part of it. My grip doesn't change so whether I grip it first before aligning my clubface to the intermediate target or if I grip if after aligning it and taking my stance, it shouldn't matter. Typically though I'll stand behind the ball looking down the line, take my grip on the club, walk up and place the club down pointing at my intermediate target, turn my head to look at the target and take my stance while looking at the target, turn to look at the ball and fire away.

The hard part is just trusting it. You'll definitely have the urge to start shuffling your feet and body around once you look back at the ball but most of the time what people feel is right, isn't even close. Let me know how it works out for you.

[David in FL]

You can either grip it or not grip it first. I don't pay much attention to that part of it. My grip doesn't change so whether I grip it first before aligning my clubface to the intermediate target or if I grip if after aligning it and taking my stance, it shouldn't matter. Typically though I'll stand behind the ball looking down the line, take my grip on the club, walk up and place the club down pointing at my intermediate target, turn my head to look at the target and take my stance while looking at the target, turn to look at the ball and fire away.

I must be slow today. I'm having trouble visualizing this. How do you align the clubface, take your grip, then re-align your body without the clubface moving away from the target line?

[deronsizemore]

I must be slow today. I'm having trouble visualizing this. How do you align the clubface, take your grip, then re-align your body without the clubface moving away from the target line?

No, I'm the slow one today it seems. I've done the routine for so long it just happens without thinking. I wrote it wrong previously.

So.... Stand behind the ball looking down the target line to pick out my intermediate target; walk up next to the ball with my feet together and align my clubface to the said intermediate target; With feet still together I take my grip; with grip taken and feet together and turn my head and look up at my target and while looking at my target I take my stance (usually one small step to the left with my left foot and one slightly bigger step to the right with my right foot); turn back to look at the ball and swing. As for your question about the clubface moving, if you follow the steps above and simply take your stance by just stepping out with each foot your clubface shouldn't move any. If by chance it does move after you've taken your stance, you can just align it back up to your intermediate target on the ground with ease. In doing this routine I've found that pointing my club at the intermediate target feels like I'm aimed left of my target with the clubface and my body. I think a lot of people have a tendency to aim right of the target and I definitely aimed way right of my target before starting this pre-shot routine. It's just an optical illusion when you address the golf ball you natural want to aim your body at the target thus making you aim your clubface right of the target. You want your clubface at the target and your body aimed parallel left of the target. Hope that helps. I can take a video and post it or something if you like.

[Zeph]

So you basically keep the same grip and club position as with any shot? Then you'll have to keep the face open for a fade and closed for a draw. If I take my netural grip, set up to the ball, then turn my body to the left, the arms want to follow, so does the wrist, and so will the clubface. If I want the clubface aiming at the target, I'll have to grip it with an open clubface. Perhaps yours is a better way to hit this, but is it not difficult to rely on keeping the clubface square to the target?

I don't have any problem aligning the clubface after taking my stance. I always find an intermediate target right in front of the ball when aligning for any shot. With a target a feet or three in front of the ball it's not hard to aim the clubface through it after I've turned the body open.

[deronsizemore]

So you basically keep the same grip and club position as with any shot? Then you'll have to keep the face open for a fade and closed for a draw. If I take my netural grip, set up to the ball, then turn my body to the left, the arms want to follow, so does the wrist, and so will the clubface. If I want the clubface aiming at the target, I'll have to grip it with an open clubface. Perhaps yours is a better way to hit this, but is it not difficult to rely on keeping the clubface square to the target?

Yeah the clubface is always pointing at the target (unless I want to play a big fade/draw). I also keep the same grip for every shot (which is slightly stronger than neutral for me). If I want to play a fade for example, I line up the face of the club at my intermediate target and then take my stance while looking at where I'd like the ball to start out (left of my target). I do this because I want my body to be open to the target line. From there, I simply swing along my body line which is aligned left of the target. The clubface is aimed at the target but by swinging the club along my body line, the clubface is open relative to that line which will produce a fade. Just the opposite is true for a draw. I don't see to have issues with my clubface moving open/closed while I take my stance. Yes, if you're picking out an intermediate target, you could still get your clubface lined up correctly after taking you stance. Most people never pick an intermediate target and just line up their body and face to where feels comfortable which is almost always about 45 yards right of the target.