"hinge and hold"

[robinoso]

What distances can you effectively hinge and hold?

I ask because like most beginners, my short game is by far my weakest.  100, I'm fine (not fine but better).  90 and in, it's miserable.  I've tried choking down and even choke down w/ 3/4 or 1/2 and it still goes way too far.  I don't know if it's because I'm hitting the ball better off of the 3/4, following through too much, or what but it's mind numbing.  I use my 56 from 100 in from all distances except chipping which I've been using 8i or PW.  I would bump and run more, but the course I play doesn't give you good lies or angles in most cases.

I've tried what seems to be the hinge and hold and have seen a good shot, but more shanks.  My brain tells me it's from peeking or from not committing to the downsing and holding causing me to stab at it.

[Mr. Desmond]

  robinoso said:

Originally Posted by robinoso

What distances can you effectively hinge and hold?

I ask because like most beginners, my short game is by far my weakest.  100, I'm fine (not fine but better).  90 and in, it's miserable.  I've tried choking down and even choke down w/ 3/4 or 1/2 and it still goes way too far.  I don't know if it's because I'm hitting the ball better off of the 3/4, following through too much, or what but it's mind numbing.  I use my 56 from 100 in from all distances except chipping which I've been using 8i or PW.  I would bump and run more, but the course I play doesn't give you good lies or angles in most cases.

I've tried what seems to be the hinge and hold and have seen a good shot, but more shanks.  My brain tells me it's from peeking or from not committing to the downsing and holding causing me to stab at it.

Most I've used it and have been effective, probably did not try it farther, is 50 yards and less.

[Beachcomber]

  robinoso said:

Originally Posted by robinoso

What distances can you effectively hinge and hold?

I ask because like most beginners, my short game is by far my weakest.  100, I'm fine (not fine but better).  90 and in, it's miserable.  I've tried choking down and even choke down w/ 3/4 or 1/2 and it still goes way too far.  I don't know if it's because I'm hitting the ball better off of the 3/4, following through too much, or what but it's mind numbing.  I use my 56 from 100 in from all distances except chipping which I've been using 8i or PW.  I would bump and run more, but the course I play doesn't give you good lies or angles in most cases.

I've tried what seems to be the hinge and hold and have seen a good shot, but more shanks.  My brain tells me it's from peeking or from not committing to the downsing and holding causing me to stab at it.

Agreed with Desmond... Hinge and Hold is more around the green side areas - so anything less than 50.  And to be honest, 50 would be pushing it.  I would say more like 30yds or less.  Here is a good video I found of Tiger doing some forms of Hinge and Hold...

[robinoso]

That helps, thanks.

Although, it's not going to help me w/ 90-50ish.  Oh well, almost warm enough to go after work and try to figure it out.

[Mr. Desmond]

  robinoso said:

Originally Posted by robinoso

That helps, thanks.

Although, it's not going to help me w/ 90-50ish.  Oh well, almost warm enough to go after work and try to figure it out.

No, definitely not 90+.

I tried some hinge and hold shots around 40-45 yards and was extraordinarily lucky that day on the course. Usually, it's less than 40 unless you're really feeling it that day.

For 90+, I suggest you learn to remain over the ball with the ball in the middle of your stance, get more weight on the front side, and don't force anything -- just smooth speed through the ball with commitment.

[shamus]

What I didn't like about Phil's instruction in his DVD is that he barely talks about what to do with your lower body. That's where, I believe Utley's book is pretty valuable because he talks a ton about "pivoting" around the left leg. His ideas have helped me quite a lot in understanding Phil's method as well, because I think he does that too, but for some reason didn't feel the need to talk about it in his DVD.

I first watched Phil's DVD this winter and practiced his method, but going his method it seemed like my upper body was all I was using and my legs were rigid, other than some knee bend. This caused me to kind of stab at the ball, which resulted in a lot of blading. I then read Utley's book and it has helped a lot. I think Utley does teach somewhat of a "hinge and hold" method, he calls it "fold, turn, and hold" but for me he gives a far better explanation of all parts of the swing.

[Mr. Desmond]

  shamus said:

Originally Posted by shamus

What I didn't like about Phil's instruction in his DVD is that he barely talks about what to do with your lower body. That's where, I believe Utley's book is pretty valuable because he talks a ton about "pivoting" around the left leg. His ideas have helped me quite a lot in understanding Phil's method as well, because I think he does that too, but for some reason didn't feel the need to talk about it in his DVD.

I first watched Phil's DVD this winter and practiced his method, but going his method it seemed like my upper body was all I was using and my legs were rigid, other than some knee bend. This caused me to kind of stab at the ball, which resulted in a lot of blading. I then read Utley's book and it has helped a lot. I think Utley does teach somewhat of a "hinge and hold" method, he calls it "fold, turn, and hold" but for me he gives a far better explanation of all parts of the swing.

You're right - I don't remember hearing about the lower body -- I watched his lower body -- he has a lot more transfer back and forth than I would have thought  - undoubtedly to impart rhythm in his swing. I can't transfer weight that quickly and instead, remain with a centered pivot while going for a smooth rhythm.

[shamus]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

You're right - I don't remember hearing about the lower body -- I watched his lower body -- he has a lot more transfer back and forth than I would have thought  - undoubtedly to impart rhythm in his swing. I can't transfer weight that quickly and instead, remain with a centered pivot while going for a smooth rhythm.

yea, I tried watching what Phil was doing, but couldn't tell what was going on, maybe because he was wearing black or maybe I can't simply watch someone and need them to also put into words with what they're doing. Interesting that you see it as more of a weight transfer, I'll have to take another look.

[Mr. Desmond]

  shamus said:

Originally Posted by shamus

yea, I tried watching what Phil was doing, but couldn't tell what was going on, maybe because he was wearing black or maybe I can't simply watch someone and need them to also put into words with what they're doing. Interesting that you see it as more of a weight transfer, I'll have to take another look.

I don't know how much weight is transferred -- I thought it was more of a way to gain rhythm in the stroke. I have this overly wrought fear of hitting fat, so I try ... try not to move weight, even though I am undoubtedly doing it a bit.