The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[Leftygolfer]

Thanks. My friend who I play with alot comments on how much my knees move towards the target.

I did move from a very strong (I mean as strong as you could possible get you can see the glove logo from a face on view) and a bit of an over the top move. And I could drive the ball ok with this but iron play, yuck. Now I have a still strong grip but not too strong and I try to have really good alignment (it is hard to train your eyes when you were a puller).

I need a video camera. (any recommendations are welcome) I want to remember my son's life as well as improve at golf.

Does the tripod go between your knees?

[iacas]

I need a video camera. (any recommendations are welcome) I want to remember my son's life as well as improve at golf.

Kodak Zi6 is $99. Great for golf - I don't know about remembering your son's life. I don't like to take video of anything - I prefer photographs. So I can't recommend anything there.

Zi6 does 720p at 60 frames per second, so it's good for golf.

Does the tripod go between your knees?

The goal here is to stop the right knee from going out (towards the ball) and to keep it "banking" inwards, or forwards, towards the target. So you put it just inside your knee and just towards the ball so that any outward motion with that right knee will make you hit the tripod. You could also use an old club shaft stuck in the ground, etc.

[Zeph]

Does the right heel come into any of this? Does it matter if it lifts pre-impact, should you try to prevent it? Can the heel lift off the ground while banking inwards or is it best to try keeping the heel on the ground and roll the inside of the foot inwards?

[david_wedzik]

To keep the back leg action correct it is best to try and feel the back foot bank inward with roll as the hips move forward. The key is to have the sensation that the entire right edge of the right foot is coming off the ground as a whole. This keeps the hips moving in a straight line longer. Bottom line is that it is OK for the right (back) heel to come off the ground but it should happen during the "banking" of the foot...not in a way that has the heel lifting directly straight off the ground in a parallel line to the toes.

Dave

[feelxitxburn]

is it safe to assume that this would a good drill:

set up as you would normally but perpendicular to a wall without a club and having your lead foot turned toward the wall about 30*. (your lead toe should just be touching the wall) Imitate your normal backswing and then to slide the hips and turn as you would in the downswing but trying not to touch the wall with any body part throughout? your finish position would just be your body facing toward the wall. essentially this would keep your hips/body not crossing your lead out-turned toe at any point.

yay or nay?

[david_wedzik]

This would be a nay - try this one - set up in the way you are describing but put your lead foot about six inches or so from the wall. Make your backswing motion and then on the downswing get your front hip to move forward far enough that it touches the wall. The hips will feel somewhat closed in doing this and and the back knee should be staying fairly straight as mentioned in one of my earlier posts. This will give you the feeling for what the proper hip slide/forward motion should be. Done in this way you won't be able to "finish" the swing but you will feel the proper continuous push of the hips forward.

Dave

[Leftygolfer]

I actually had some video on my phone. What I saw was that my hips are going foward before turning and the club coming through.

That is what we are looking for, correct?

[bioman]

The goal here is to stop the right knee from going out (towards the ball) and to keep it "banking" inwards, or forwards, towards the target. So you put it just inside your knee and just towards the ball so that any outward motion with that right knee will make you hit the tripod. You could also use an old club shaft stuck in the ground, etc.

Your talking on the downswing only correct? So, you want your right knee to pass over the inside tripod leg and not hit the tripod head? Just to clarify.

[iacas]

Your talking on the downswing only correct? So, you want your right knee to pass over the inside tripod leg and not hit the tripod head? Just to clarify.

Right, downswing. The knee should pass to the inside of it. If it bends and/or sticks out to the right instead of banking forward (target-ward), then it'll hit the tripod.

[bioman]

Is this guy wrong?

[david_wedzik]

I'm sorry about how vehement I am going to be about this but YES, HE IS WRONG! This is about as bad a bit of advice you could give to a "weekend golfer" (bad for very good players as well). The motion he shows in showing what "not to do" is actually very close to the correct motion and this video could be used for that very nicely (note how he puts in tilt on his right side as he does this).

He even goes on to state that when the hips push forward the club comes TOO much from the inside and that is why players hit to the right. The very last thing the average player does is come TOO MUCH from the inside (I can't tell you how many instructors are inundated with people telling them they are pushing and drawing too much...very common problem ). The average player (and many, many good players) do NOT slide their hips forward enough and in doing to the club and shaft "tip" out and over the top on the downswing. This causes the poorer player to hit across balls and CUT/SLICE them to the right...not push them to the right. Don't just take my word for this...watch poorer players hit balls and note the lack of forward movement on the downswing and into impact...then watch expert players and note the opposite. I should mention that for certain players (not the average case) if, as the hips move forward, the upper axis is shifted and tilted to the right (for a righty) too quickly this can cause a duck hook as he mentions. This is not simply because the hips move forward, but rather the upper axis independently translating to the right and tilting too much causing a rapid club face closing into impact (the duck hook). Again...this is very FAR from the normal pattern of the average weekend player.

Stay far away from this advice.

Dave

[bioman]

Thanks David.

A question about the left leg. As the hips slide forward, and the right knee is moving towards the target, does the left knee straighten at impact? In the video I posted, the forward hip slide that he recommends not to do is pretty exaggerated. I've never seen pro swings come close to coming the hips laterally that much, but the video guy doesn't straighten his legs when he is showing that example. When I see a lot of swing vision vids, it seems like the pro's do not move as much laterally as I am practicing. I'm trying to move laterally a lot before impact, but I noticed that in order to get that extra bit of lateral motion, my left leg isn't straightening at impact all the way. I do see that in almost all pro golfer vids, the left leg is straightened at impact and hips (or belt buckle) facing the target. When I try to emulate this, while focusing just on the most hip slide I can get, I can see that my hips are not fully facing the target, maybe 30 deg off from it.

So, basic quesiton is, what does the left leg do during the hip slide?

[iacas]

A question about the left leg. As the hips slide forward, and the right knee is moving towards the target, does the left knee straighten at impact? In the video I posted, the forward hip slide that he recommends not to do is pretty exaggerated. I've never seen pro swings come close to coming the hips laterally that much, but the video guy doesn't straighten his legs when he is showing that example. When I see a lot of swing vision vids, it seems like the pro's do not move as much laterally as I am practicing. I'm trying to move laterally a lot before impact, but I noticed that in order to get that extra bit of lateral motion, my left leg isn't straightening at impact all the way. I do see that in almost all pro golfer vids, the left leg is straightened at impact and hips (or belt buckle) facing the target. When I try to emulate this, while focusing just on the most hip slide I can get, I can see that my hips are not fully facing the target, maybe 30 deg off from it.

Did you look at the first post in this thread? I posted a lot of images of pros and their hips, and you could answer a lot of the questions you seem to have by looking at those pictures.

Their belts aren't facing the target at impact. They're around 30 degrees open with their hips with relatively square shoulders at impact. And they slide or push their hips forward a LOT. Plus this image, which I know I've posted somewhere: Pro Impact Positions .

[bioman]

In the first post, it looks like half the pro's have a slightly bent leg and half half a straightened leg. I don't see where it says what the left leg has to do, it just talks about hips. I want to know the goal of the left leg at impact. Slightly bent or fully straight?

When I practice, I can practically slide my hips the same amount forward or even farther with my belt buckle still staying relatively perpendicular to the target line. So "sliding the hips" thought might not work for my swing. But if I start to slide and straighten my left leg, the hips do begin to rotate halfway, which is why I am originally asking the question.

[moreira85]

#1 - Iacas is absolutely right that the BEST way to achieve a proper hip turn is by PUSHING THE RIGHT KNEE forward. I give the specific direction of "Toward the toe of your front foot".

So I went to the range yesterday and as I said in an earlier post for the last 8 years I've played this game I have started the downswing with my upper body. You can imagine what kind of pulls I have hit in the past. Yesterday at the range I tried some of the things I read on this post. The only thing I focused on was my right leg. I started the swing with my weight preset on the instep of my right foot. As I got to the top of my swing the only thing I focused on was pushing off the instep of my right foot towards the target and kicking my right knee in towards the target. I felt like Tom Watson saying to myself "I GOT IT"! I was hitting baby draws and it was a feeling I never felt before. All I heard was ball then turf, ball then turf, ball then turf!! My question is this, When beginning the downswing by pushing off the instep of your right foot can you start swinging down at the ball with your arms at the same time? Or do you have to push off with your righ foot FIRST and then let the arms swing down at the ball. I felt like whenever I started with the push off of the right foot first I could then swing as hard as I wanted without getting off plane. Thanks for comments in advance. Hope I am on to something here!

[Zeph]

First off I'd like to comment on your experience with kicking the right knee in. I've worked on the same myself, and it was truly an eye opener. I have tried pushing the hips or left knee, but didn't like the feeling of it. Kicking the right knee in feels great. It takes no effort, it feels like the knee is collapsing, forcing the weight over to the left side. It does not collapse of course, an important detail is that the flex in the knee must not increase, it should straighten out a bit. Another thing is that you must make sure the knee does not move towards the ball. It should move towards the target, or as stated earlier, toes of the left foot.

I've tried a lot of drills and fixes when it comes to weight transfer, nothing has felt and worked as great as kicking the right knee in. I look forward to when the season starts, so I can get the swing on a video camera.

You should not swing with the upper body. I know it's hard to adjust if you're used to doing so, I do the same myself. The feeling you want to look for is the upper and lower body getting separated at the waist. When you shift the weight and start turning the hips, the upper body will follow and hopefully drop the club into the slot. Here is where the hands position come into play. If you swing the arms out in front of the body, it is virtually impossible to swing with only the lower body and just let the upper body ride along. With the arms so far out, the mind will unconciously manipulate them to get a decent angle of attack.

Watch some swing vision videos on Youtube, see how the lower body in a lot of the players starts moving just before the rotation has completed. From there, the weight transfers and hips rotate, pulling with it the rest of the body.

[tm22721]

A lateral hip slide is simply the rear hip rotating behind you to the target in the back swing IF you completely wind up. As you turn the hips in the downswing the camera sees an illusion - the lead hip appears to be sliding to the target but it is NOT, it is rotating back to the left heel.

What appears to be magic in the pro swings is a natural reaction to a proper windup to the top. Stretch the elastic bands in a wide and deep arc then unwind the hips to LET the down swing happen. Physics does the hard part in fulfilling the downswing imperatives.

[ypshan]

Excellent thread. Kicking the right knee toward the target really works. Thanks Erik.

You might want to replace the title of the thread with "The Biggest Secret: Kick your right Knee". The sliding of the hip is likely to be the result of weight transfer. What triggers the transfer could be the kicking in of the right knee or the thought of rolling the right foot (i.e. Jack Nicklaus/Grout tip).