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Thinking about stacking and tilting


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Posted
well as some of you may know i was going to go stack and tilt,well today while playing my first round trying s&t; i found my old swing the one that i had a year ago that i was playing to a +.5 to .7 handicap.so im done with s&t;,my swing is not traditional but its powerful and pretty accurate.sorry i just had to share my joy.

Posted
i have a round sunday so well see how the stats come along.

i played a round today and found my older swing.as far as s&t; goes i found it to be a good way to swing.if you are having troubles with a conventional swing s&t; may be the swing for you.


Posted
Wow, two weeks ago you were thinking about it. Now you've abandoned it. Didn't people tell you to work on it with an instructor and to give it time, and that you couldn't learn it in a week or even a month?

Flake.

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

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Posted

To second what Butch just said... I'll quote myself.

I mean, I was about the same handicap index as the one you had listed and I didn't play golf for three weeks when I first took lessons, and when I did I hit some, well, some really

It's one thing to change your mind after putting in some effort or deciding that you were wrong. But you went into this, seemingly, completely uninformed or unprepared. I can't think of any other explanation why you'd quit so quickly after convincing yourself.

ANY swing change ANYONE works on should be done with the utmost of care. Good luck, ping.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Posted
yes but as i said i found the missing link for my old swing i was stacking and tilting for some kind of a swing but now my old one is back i have no need for it

Posted

Good to hear man, the +'s are a good place!!

Hey man, mind if I borrow the DVD's? I'll send em back in 1 week!

Just thought I'd put that out there...

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Posted
Good to hear man, the +'s are a good place!!

ping guy should put them in the Marketplace... Seriously. He's not gonna use 'em - may as well make a few bucks and help someone else with their game.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted
ping guy should put them in the Marketplace... Seriously. He's not gonna use 'em - may as well make a few bucks and help someone else with their game.

And then get that video camera.


Posted
And then get that video camera.

i do not feel to good with posting my swing even if i did have one there are only a few people on here i would trust getting tips from and they all sem to have gone s&t;


Posted
its a relatively new swing that keeps weight over the ball,not shifting your weight behind it.

I have basically transitioned to this not knowing it was 'stack and tilt' related. I have always got stuck on my right side so I have done a few drills(with club pro's guidance) to overcome that problem. As a result, I put no emphasis on shifting weight to my right side. Maybe I am getting it to my right side but I feel more centered over the ball, if that makes sense. So my guess is people have done this for years, but didn't realize it was 'stack and tilt'. But who knows.......I know nothing about nothing.

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Posted
I have basically transitioned to this not knowing it was 'stack and tilt' related. I have always got stuck on my right side so I have done a few drills(with club pro's guidance) to overcome that problem. As a result, I put no emphasis on shifting weight to my right side. Maybe I am getting it to my right side but I feel more centered over the ball, if that makes sense. So my guess is people have done this for years, but didn't realize it was 'stack and tilt'. But who knows.......I know nothing about nothing.

I think that for years ppl have been putting together some pieces of what we now call SnT. But NOBODY has put ALL of them together in the manner that Andy & Mike have. If you look at the SnT book you will see that they have a bunch of different pictures of pro's at various stages, ie: all the pieces that make up SnT. If you talk with anyone who REALLY knows, they will tell you about Hogan or Sergio or whoever at a particular position. This is because all of these ppl exhibit "pieces" of the pattern, but not the entire thing. You can use any part of the pattern to help with your "traditional" swing, the down fall is that if something goes wrong you cant ask someone (SnT'er or other wise) what your doing wrong as your swing is just a hybrid, so opinions will vary and ppl will want to change anything and everything. This is what i really like about SnT, if i dont get what i am looking for, i just ask or post a vid and bam, there's my answer. Good luck with whatever you decide and have a good time out there !

Note: This thread is 5863 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. 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Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. 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    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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