Please Check My Swing!

[ericstamper]

you are casting or flipping the club down at the bottom is what im seeing......try holding the wrist cock longer through your swing then roll them hands over

[Luckner88]

No problem.

Thanks for giving explaining that better. Just to clarify, when I tug my forearm my right elbow starts to bend up naturally, am I doing it right?

[Phil McGleno]

is that supposed to be some kind of jab? if the world worked according to your logic, hank haney would be a better golfer than tiger woods.

I guarantee Hank Haney can break 80, unlike you. And no, that's not to say that Hank is a better golfer than Tiger Woods. But if you're physically capable (i.e. you're not Harvey Penick), you're a good player if you're a good instructor. I've yet to meet a good instructor who can't break 80.

you are casting or flipping the club down at the bottom is what im seeing......try holding the wrist cock longer through your swing then roll them hands over

Horrible advice. He does that he'll bury the club a foot behind the ball. Rolling the hands over is equally bad.

The solution is simple, and I'll repeat it. You do a lot well. You do a few things you could do better, like where the club gets on the takeaway and the downswing, but you arrive at the top of the backswing pretty well - a lot of people wish they could look like you do at the top of your backswing. You simply need to move your left arm across your chest faster on the downswing. Your body's going 100 MPH forward but your left arm is only going 50. There are two ways to accomplish this. One is by using your left arm and pulling it across your chest more. The more likely way you'll accomplish this, though, is to use the right arm to push the handle. The first, in Golfing Machine terms, is the fourth accumulator. The latter is the first accumulator. http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzell...ellashort7.mp4 http://www.howcast.com/videos/129228...r-Accumulators You actually need a less active #3 (which is why the advice to your hands over is terrible) and #2 (though your casting is more because #1 and #4 aren't being used). If the left arm (think of karate chopping down on the ball faster, moving your left arm across your chest from where it is in the downswing to outside of your body to the left - increasing the angle between your clavicle and your left arm faster) works for you, great. It'll feel like the karate chop move. If the right arm works for you, it'll feel like from the top of your downswing that you're just shoving the grip (since that's where your right arm connects to the golf club) at a point near to - but in front of (target-ward) - the golf ball. Either way, get those going faster and/or sooner in the downswing. Your arms right now are just being dragged behind your body - they need to push (right arm) or pull (left arm) more. I think more people are capable of being hitters (right arm, #1 accumulator, and pushing) than they are swingers (left arm, #4, pulling), but in reality most people are "switters" or "hingers" - they do a mix of both.

[grantc79]

Thanks for giving explaining that better. Just to clarify, when I tug my forearm my right elbow starts to bend up naturally, am I doing it right?

Perfectly.

I'll see if I can't put a video up for you. At the end of the day a lot of people are going to give you a lot of different advice, that is the problem with this place. I'm not saying any of them are right or wrong, but you are going to hear a lot of different things. Your problem indisputably in my opinion is that the club gets too far inside on its way to the top. Given that fact 1 of 2 things is going to happen going downwards to the ball. Either you will stay on that overly inside plane and your best hits will be large push draws and your worse hits will be straight pushes and very fat shots or you will reroute the club upwards in your downswing and become a slicer like 99% of the community and generally hate golf. I'm not going to tell you, your hips are turning too fast, you are too armsy, your arms aren't going up enough, part of your body A is moving faster than part of the body B or anything else. My hunch is that your arms are completely limp and you are simply turning the shoulders backwards but only you know what you are doing. All I would say is rather than trying to correct your problem try to remove the problem which means start over and relearn how to get the club into a good position. You can do that by fanning the right forearm, pulling everything upwards with your right forearm, while turning your shoulders and basically allowing them to follow. The shoulders follow the arms, not the other way around. That is how I would solve your problem.

[grantc79]

Here's a video I made for you really quick.



There are basically 4 takeaways in the video.

#1 Is with a club slightly exaggerated over plane which is where you probably ought to feel like you are for awhile while you get used to being more upright.

#2 Is the drill I told you about with the arms limp and just the shoulders turning backwards.

#3 Is the drill with the shoulders doing nothing and the right forearm raising the left arm.

#4 Is a combination of #2 and #3 and it is pretty much perfectly on plane.


You can do this drill in your house or anywhere you are really. Just grab the left wrist with the right one and start tugging with the right forearm and pivot your shoulders around to follow the arms. I would practice in the mirror for awhile first until you can find your spots.

The benefit to using a right forearm takeaway is it stretches the left arm using what Golfing Machine guys refer to as extensor action. The more you stretch something, the harder it recoils.

Stretching a bow, firing a sling shot, any number of tasks that involve a coiling and rebounding effect are basically pulled one way and then pulled another.

Most people don't learn this way with golf so its foreign to them, but it is a very effective way to skin the proverbial cat.

[Phil McGleno]

#4 Is a combination of #2 and #3 and it is pretty much perfectly on plane.

Like hell that's on plane! Almost nobody swings that upright, and you're acting as if there's really only one true plane, which isn't true at all. There's nothing wrong with a one-plane swing, and for most people, it's a better plane. If you're a "right-arm hitter" like you claim you should advocate a plane closer to a one-plane swing in general.

The benefit to using a right forearm takeaway is it stretches the left arm using what Golfing Machine guys refer to as extensor action. The more you stretch something, the harder it recoils.

You can keep your left arm extended in every example you did. Furthermore, extensor action is more about the downswing, as it says something about (from memory) how extensor action keeps a rigidity in the left arm that helps it not collapse due to acceleration (downswing) and impact. The purpose of right-arm extensor action is not to "stretch" the left arm so that it can "recoil" at all. That's completely wrong.

Stretching a bow, firing a sling shot, any number of tasks that involve a coiling and rebounding effect are basically pulled one way and then pulled another.

Not the same thing at all, really. If that were the case we'd go into our backswing and then go limp and do nothing, and our bodies would naturally "recoil" into the ball.

[grantc79]

Like hell that's on plane! Almost nobody swings that upright, and you're acting as if there's really only one true plane, which isn't true at all. There's nothing wrong with a one-plane swing, and for most people, it's a better plane. If you're a "right-arm hitter" like you claim you should advocate a plane closer to a one-plane swing in general.

You obviously did not read what I said, go back and re-read please. I stated very clearly that the takeaway with the club in my hands is a little upright which he needs in order to make the change from too inside. I am also 6'5 and stand fairly upright so my plane is liable to be a bit higher than his might be. That said, the dragging of the arms in takeaway #4 is pretty damn on plane.

I'm not here to argue with you as it is a waste of time. He asked me for my opinion and for further clarification and I gave it. If he doesn't want to listen to me that's fine, he simply asked and I answered. I gave up trying to win arguments on the internet a long time ago.

You can keep your left arm extended in every example you did. Furthermore, extensor action is more about the downswing, as it says something about (from memory) how extensor action keeps a rigidity in the left arm that helps it not collapse due to acceleration (downswing) and impact. The purpose of right-arm extensor action is not to "stretch" the left arm so that it can "recoil" at all. That's completely wrong.

I'm not saying that extensor action isn't employed throughout. In fact many people employ it in the down swing without thinking about it. What I am saying is it definitely SHOULD KNOWINGLY be employed in the back swing. Perhaps view this thread among others, just head to their site and search extensor action in the thread title:

Click this link, read that post, Lynn is the absolute authority on Extensor action and TGM. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...3449#post53449

Not the same thing at all, really. If that were the case we'd go into our backswing and then go limp and do nothing, and our bodies would naturally "recoil" into the ball.

If every analogy had to be a perfect analogy then we wouldn't have any analogies would we?

The idea is the same. Yes I realize that the left arm and body are not bent pieces of wood that can be bent and will automatically snap back like a bow would. The point of that analogy was that you shouldn't push a club away or drag it away with your shoulders. In order to create more stability in the swing and avoid the flimsy pushing of the club or dragging it with the shoulders, you should pull a passive left arm with the right arm. That creates and uses extensor action in the swing which leads to more power and a more repeatable motion. Now that is not to say that some people don't have a ton of success doing it different ways. But he is asking for opinions, I offered mine, he wanted clarification, I gave that too. He's a big boy. Let him do his homework and look up some PGA pros and see how their angles compare to the one I showed at the top. If he doesn't like it then he can ignore my information. For those too lazy I will quote it for you. This quote is basically Lynn on how he would teach extensor action in the swing, specifically the takeaway, in 3rd person:

Agreed. Okay, BBax, how about this: The camera finds you wearing a rain jacket, windshirt or long sleeve shirt, but with your left arm out of its sleeve. With the sleeve dangling, you open with: "Hi, I'm PGA golf professional BBax, and I'm here today to demonstrate how the two arms work in the golf swing. Oops, looks like I've forgotten to put my left arm in its sleeve. [Pick up the sleeve -- no stretch yet -- with the right hand and show it to the audience.] No matter . . . the left arm doesn't do all that much anyway. It functions like a piece of string. But we all know that the left arm -- the string -- needs to be straight, so it needs to be 'stretched out'. How do we do this? With the right arm! Like this." [Demonstrate a good stretch of the sleeve.] "Now, how do we get this 'arm' to the top of the swing. Not by turning the shoulders! [Demonstrate.] And certainly not with the 'sleeve' itself! [Demo with chuckle: 'See, it won't move!'] Again, we use the right arm! " [Demonstrate how the bending right arm takes the sleeve to the top.] "Notice that the right arm keeps stretching the sleeve. This same action in your golf swing will give it width and structure. But a lot of you stop stretching and so you look like this. [Demonstrate a backstroke with an unstretched sleeve.] So, your swing has no structure. It is flimsy. Keep that sleeve -- your left arm -- stretched!" "Now, notice that the right arm can't be straight, it has to bend. That's because this sleeve is acting like a leash. See? [Demonstrate backstroke again]. Now it wants to be straight -- [Demo: let go of the sleeve halfway back and let the right arm rapidly extend and straighten out.] -- but it can't!" "In fact, the right elbow gets more and more bent as it approaches the right shoulder [Demo backswing] and can't begin to straighten until it moves away from it [Demo release]. It can't be fully straight until well past the ball [Demo follow-through]." "This is the way your arms work in the swing. The right arm lifts and lowers the left and keeps it stretched out. Now, go put on a jacket or a long sleeve shirt, but leave that left arm out of the sleeve. Get the feel. [Demo as you talk.] Without a jacket . . . [Quickly remove yours and toss it to the ground.] . . . simply grasp your left wrist with your right thumb and forefinger [Demo as you talk] and stretch that left arm! Now take it to the top, like this. [Demo as you talk.] Keep the stretch! [Demo] Into the downstroke, impact and followthrough. Keep the stretch! [Demo]. "Do this little drill for a few minutes a day, and you'll soon find yourself playing better golf. I'm PGA professional BBax, and I'll see you on the tee!"

[James_Black]

I'd advise you to go see another pro.
the guys here are giving conflicting info.

150 yards with a 7i isn't that short, I only hit it 140-145 max

[Phil McGleno]

You obviously did not read what I said, go back and re-read please. I stated very clearly that the takeaway with the club in my hands is a little upright which he needs in order to make the change from too inside.

You're trying to fix the clubhead going behind his hands by fixing where his arms go. His hand plane isn't the problem, and again, he reaches a pretty decent position at the top. His biggest problem is with the downswing.

That said, the dragging of the arms in takeaway #4 is pretty damn on plane.

Bullshit. First, there's no "one plane" and the position you get to is great if you want to have a flying right elbow. It's also not going to fix his biggest problem.

The idea is the same.

No it's not. It's a piss poor analogy.

And you don't need to pull the left arm along. Some people push the club away with the left arm and do just fine. Some people aren't hitters, either - they actively use their left arm. Simple: you're not an instructor, so stop playing one on the Internet.

For those too lazy I will quote it for you. This quote is basically Lynn on how he would teach extensor action in the swing, specifically the takeaway, in 3rd person:

Yeah - for someone it suits.

[iacas]

Luckner, go see someone in person. Even if people are giving you the perfect advice you can easily misunderstand it by just reading it and not having it demonstrated to you by a competent guy.

This might help you find a good instructor:
http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/...ouve_gotta_ask

Butch, grant, stop. Both of you.