Unhinging the wrists on the downswing (S&T)

[finitesoup]

Yesterday I started consciously "releasing" my wrist hinge (while still maintaining the flying wedge) right after I start my downswing by moving my trailing knee towards the target and while straightening my arms. The movement of the trailing knee as the downswing trigger and the straightening of the arms are moves that I've been working on for a while, but the conscious unhinging was new.

I immediately noticed a difference in my ball-striking -- higher ball flight and an additional 5-10 meters with my 7-iron.

So that's great, right? However, I worry that I've introduced a timing-dependent element that goes against my understanding of the stack and tilt swing. What do the gurus say? Is this something that you think about or should it happen automatically?

It could just be working for me as I tend to have too much tension in my grip and wrists and if I don't consciously release then it doesn't happen...

[Hollister]

What do the gurus say? Is this something that you think about or should it happen automatically?

Gurus say, that you do not consciously release the hinge, it happens. Both holding the flying wedge and releasing is a contradiction. Releasing lets the ball go up high, cause you put more loft on your club.

Well, trust me. My balls go up way too high, because I am not holding the flying wedge. Hi-speed video shows that clearly. Did you do a video of you swing?

[finitesoup]

Both holding the flying wedge and releasing is a contradiction.

My understanding is that the flying wedge is the backwards bend of the right hand that forms an angle to the wrist. This angle can be maintained while unhinging/uncocking the angle formed between the shaft of the club and the arms while straightening the arms through the downswing. That's what I'm referring to when describing the conscious unhinging.

I have not recorded the change on video as I'm waiting for my camera...should arrive sometime next week.

[Hollister]

If you do it that way, it'll be right. Could be, I misread you...

[Taggsy]

For half the swing in S&T;, the wrists shouldn't be doing anything.
On the downswing, when the shaft is parallel with the ground (and parallel to the target line), the clubface will appear to be at a 45 degree angle from a down the line view.
At this position the clubface is actually perpendicular to the swing plane itself. The wrists and clubface are set up for impact.
From this position you simply rotate your shoulders and upper body as hard as you can towards the target- the left arm will come away form the chest and the right arm will start to straighten after impact - but there is no rotation of the wrists.

On the followthrough, again when the club is parallel to the ground (and the target line), the clubface will appear from your perspective to be at a 45 degree angle, again this is perpendicular to the swing plane.

After this position the wrists will rotate anti-clockwise, cocking the club again.

Jim Hardy explains this very well in his Plane Truth books under the one plane section. You're simply preparing the wrists for impact as early as you can on the downswing and holding the wrists in position through impact, eliminating the rotating of the clubface from open to close as you're hitting the ball.

... or at least that's my understanding of it, I'm sure more knowledgeable folk may correct any mistakes or misunderstandings.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

I've been striving to do just the opposite--to hold the cock in the wrists as long as possible and hit late. I stay up at night worrying that my natural release is not giving me a good late hit. :(

[iacas]

On the downswing, when the shaft is parallel with the ground (and parallel to the target line), the clubface will appear to be at a 45 degree angle from a down the line view.

That's not true. It's true on the backswing, but on the downswing the club will often be toe up because the stock shot calls for the face to be slightly open at impact. It'll close when the club turns the corner, but "the model" would call for a leading edge roughly perpendicular to the plane on the backswing at P2 and toe up or close to it at P6.

It's a small point, and there's some wiggle room, but the club should be a little more toe up at P6 than it is at P2, that is for sure.

From this position you simply rotate your shoulders and upper body as hard as you can towards the target- the left arm will come away form the chest and the right arm will start to straighten after impact - but there is no rotation of the wrists.

Well you continue to push forward and you also start to extend and "jump" from there too. The continued pushing forward is partly what allows the body to continue to turn.

On the followthrough, again when the club is parallel to the ground (and the target line), the clubface will appear from your perspective to be at a 45 degree angle, again this is perpendicular to the swing plane.

Yes, toe up here is closed slightly.

After this position the wrists will rotate anti-clockwise, cocking the club again.

I'm not sure what you mean there. Re-cocking the club to finish in the classic S&T; finish is not a rotational move. The clubface still stays relatively square to the plane - cocking the left wrist is perpendicular to the plane.

P.S. To finitesoup, "releasing" the club is almost always discussed as accumulator 3 action - rolling the right forearm and wrist over the left forearm and wrist through impact. It's contradictory to maintaining the flying wedge, yes. Uncocking the club (releasing #2 accumulator) is almost never considered "releasing" the club. So that's what may have caused some initial confusion.

[Stretch]

I like this sequence of Mike Bennett, where you can pretty clearly see the amount of hinge and club head orientation at P4, P5, P6.

[finitesoup]

P.S. To finitesoup, "releasing" the club is almost always discussed as accumulator 3 action - rolling the right forearm and wrist over the left forearm and wrist through impact. It's contradictory to maintaining the flying wedge, yes. Uncocking the club (releasing #2 accumulator) is almost never considered "releasing" the club. So that's what may have caused some initial confusion.

Sorry for the confusion.

But my original question remains: Is the uncocking/unhinging a conscious move in the S&T; swing or should it just happen?

[Hollister]

But my original question remains: Is the uncocking/unhinging a conscious move in the S&T; swing or should it just happen?

Gurus say, that you do not consciously release the hinge, it happens.

Straight from the Gurus (describing wrist angles at P8):

"The angle between the right arm and the flat (or almost flat) position of the left writ have stayed intact through impact. No rolling or flipping of the club has occurred". (p 113, The S&T; Swing).

[iacas]

Straight from the Gurus (describing wrist angles at P8):

He seems to be talking about accumulator #2, not #3 (rolling, "releasing," etc.).

To finitesoup I'd say that the cocking of the left wrist (the right wrist does not cock) should pretty much happen naturally, but if you release it early you can work to hold onto it longer.