My Swing (ERdiesel)

[ERdiesel]

Updated swing video as of 22 Aug 2011 (please provide any feedback on this swing).  I currently play to a 14 handicap, and I'm sure that some of you will say I shouldn't be playing a 2 iron, but I don't find this very difficult to hit, especially off the tee on really tight fairways.  Most strangers I get paired up with on the course are pretty surprised that I not only bag a 2i, but that i'm able to hit it okay.  In any case, I would like some of you swing gurus to take a look at my current swing and let me know what you think.  And I've reposted my swing from a year ago, and see if i've improved in some areas and went backwards in other areas.  Thanks all.

Previous swing video for reference from last summer (May 2010) that others were commenting on previously:

[Fairway_CY]

I don't know much about the golf swing... and I'm sure people here will be able to help you a ton (they've helped me)... but the ONLY thing I see is that your arms appear to be almost bent and you're sort of hunched over at impact. Kind of like you're short arming it a little rather than letting your arms turn around your body and extend. Otherwise... the swing appears to be pretty solid.

Like I said, though... I don't know much. So, I'm sorry if I mislead you.

CY

[Rexx]

Setup and posture look good. Backswing looks good. The downswing... not so much. It looks like you start the downswing okay, but then just quit halfway through it -- your hips stop moving left and both the hips and shoulders stop turning and your hands pass them too soon. For the downswing, you need to start with a hip slide and a slight vertical drop of the arms/hands. Then, the hips and shoulders turn (and continue to turn) which, combined with the momentum of dropping the arms/hands, will pull the arms around and through impact. By the time you contact the ball, your hips should be pointing ~20+ degrees left of the ball, your shoulders square (or slightly open) to the ball, the hands slightly ahead of the ball, and ~75% of your weight should be on your left side. At finish, the hips and shoulders should at least be facing the target and ~90% of your weight should be on your left side. Just make sure your hips and shoulders are leading the arms and hands all the way through impact. It's only well past impact that the arms and hands should catch up.

Good luck.

[1Greatgolfguy]

I agree with Rexx. Backswing is fantastic. I paused it right at the top and it was PGA tour-esque. I think Fairway CY had the right idea, it did look as though you bent your arms just before contact. There is a ball on the range right infront of your hands during setup. When you swung the club you could see your hands and now the ball was behind, which if you hit the ball pure would explain the need to bend the arms to contact the ball. the bent arms would explain the inconsistency. My quick suggestion would be to try to take a couple of swings keeping your hands closer to your groin during your swing, making MORE of a ''V" between your shoulders and the club face. that should straighten out your leading arm, increasing consistency and even possibly distance. Hope this makes sense, let me know how it goes.

[ERdiesel]

Thanks everyone, your feedback was exactly what I was looking for.

@ CY, thanks for pointing out my position at impact, my arms definitely are bent, but wondering why that is, perhaps my distance to the ball changes at impact because i'm hunching over more or lifting my head or moving out of position? hence i compensate with the bent arms but it doesn't seem like thats the case.

@ Rexx, when you mention a hip slide at the beginning of my downswing, do you mean kind of a lateral movement of the hips to the left (right handed) as i begin to square up my hips or while my hip is turned a little, and is that accomplished simply by a weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg? I know one is supposed to "limit" hip turn in the back swing but there is still a turning of the hips. Do i begin the downswing by squaring up the hips and then "open" my hips relative to the target line by the 20 degrees as you mentioned while squaring the shoulders? is that correctly interpreted?

@ Greatgolfguy, thank you so much for the positive feedback on my backswing. It's good to know a part of my swing isn't complete FUBAR. The encouragement certainly wants me to try harder to get better. Do you think it's a setup issue regarding my hands? should i be closer to the ball? if anything i feel like i'm too close to the ball, or am i moving lower to the ground, hence the bent arms?

arghhhhhhh so much to keep track of in the swing :) guess that's why i both love and hate this sport. Ahhhh, who am i kidding, i love it.

[Rexx]

@ Rexx, when you mention a hip slide at the beginning of my downswing, do you mean kind of a lateral movement of the hips to the left (right handed) as i begin to square up my hips or while my hip is turned a little, and is that accomplished simply by a weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg? I know one is supposed to "limit" hip turn in the back swing but there is still a turning of the hips. Do i begin the downswing by squaring up the hips and then "open" my hips relative to the target line by the 20 degrees as you mentioned while squaring the shoulders? is that correctly interpreted?

Ok... this is gonna be a little technical, but here goes. Your arms bend because you stop turning your hips and shoulders. Imagine this... you have a string with a ball attached on the end. You hold the opposite end of the string and twirl the ball. The string stays taut because of centrifugal force. What happens when you stop the twirling? The string collapses. The golf swing is similar, albeit with less than a single rotation. The ball is the club head, the string is your arms, and your hand/wrist is your body. You need to achieve the same forces in your arms that were exerted on the string by using gravity and body rotation (vs wrist twirling). Gravity is the initial dropping of the club from the top of backswing position... it can also be a little pull downwards. This is equivalent to how you would rock the ball a little bit on the string before twirling the wrist -- it builds a little momentum. Once that momentum starts, you then turn your hips and shoulders to redirect that acceleration from downwards to right-to-left. The hips and shoulders must "stay ahead" of the arms and hands or the whole thing breaks down. Just like twiriling the ball and string... notice how the wrist is applying force of where you want the ball to go next... the ball and string lag behind the position of the wrist slightly. Finally, notice how when twirling you may have a lot of tension in your wrist, but if you relax and time it right, it can be effortless, yet just as fast. Well... that's what you're trying to do in your swing... it's about timing the muscle movements to deliver a repeatable, powerful swing with only moderate effort.

Whew... now onto your questions. The hip slide is lateral at the beginning of the swing. There will be a slight uncoiling of the hips during this time, but they should be slightly closed or square at the end of the hip slide. There are many ways of accomplishing this. Some use the right knee pushing toward the left. I tend to just think about sliding my left hip, but I have to watch out for the left hip raising during this time because I stood up slightly on the ball of my left foot. I'm looking for the feeling of the weight on the left foot increasing and compressing into the ground a bit. Note, while the hips have moved left, the head and shoulders have not... they stay in approximately the same position. The end of the hip slide will also be the point at which the hips are furthest ahead rotationally than the shoulders (close to 90 degrees). Anyways, it is during the hip slide that the hands will begin their vertical drop (in a two-plane swing like you have) to just at or slightly below shoulder height. From here, while the arms continue to drop, the hips will continue to turn and the shoulders will start turning (partly due to the twisting of the hips, but probably more because you are actively turning them). As you continue, the hips will begin to slow and the shoulders will start to turn faster and by impact the hips are only 20-30 degrees ahead of the shoulders -- this varies with flexibility and golfer skill. Anyways, the arms' job during the downswing are to stay just behind the shoulders -- like the string and ball lag behind the wrist. They can't go completely limp or the club will crash into the ground behind the ball, but they also can't actively catch up to the shoulders by trying to swing at the ball or they will collapse (and you'll get the chicken-wing follow through). There's some muscle tension to hold their position relative to the shoulders, but not too much to slow them down... it's about finding that right balance. Finally, to keep the momentum going through impact, there's a kind of hard-to-describe move. Somewhere just before or at impact, you basically take your butt and push it up and through your hips -- kind of like your straightening out your body from the thighs to your lower back. This will cause the left leg to straighten and give you a nice balanced finish. You are definitely not doing this. But like before, this move should not influence the position of the head and shoulders very much. A lot of what I describe makes it sound like there are these distinct (almost violent) movements. Really, the lines are kind of blurry between the movements, but also, doing each of the moves even part way will yield improved results as you begin to sequence your swing properly. Hope that wasn't too much or too boring... it actually helps me to put it down into words.

[ERdiesel]

Ok... this is gonna be a little technical, but here goes. Your arms bend because you stop turning your hips and shoulders. Imagine this... you have a string with a ball attached on the end. You hold the opposite end of the string and twirl the ball. The string stays taut because of centrifugal force. What happens when you stop the twirling? The string collapses. The golf swing is similar, albeit with less than a single rotation. The ball is the club head, the string is your arms, and your hand/wrist is your body. You need to achieve the same forces in your arms that were exerted on the string by using gravity and body rotation (vs wrist twirling). Gravity is the initial dropping of the club from the top of backswing position... it can also be a little pull downwards. This is equivalent to how you would rock the ball a little bit on the string before twirling the wrist -- it builds a little momentum. Once that momentum starts, you then turn your hips and shoulders to redirect that acceleration from downwards to right-to-left. The hips and shoulders must "stay ahead" of the arms and hands or the whole thing breaks down. Just like twiriling the ball and string... notice how the wrist is applying force of where you want the ball to go next... the ball and string lag behind the position of the wrist slightly. Finally, notice how when twirling you may have a lot of tension in your wrist, but if you relax and time it right, it can be effortless, yet just as fast. Well... that's what you're trying to do in your swing... it's about timing the muscle movements to deliver a repeatable, powerful swing with only moderate effort.

Rexx, Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to type that all in. What you say makes sense and one of my chief complaints about how I strike the ball is what seems to me is high ball flight with just "average" distance, i say average because i like to think i'm physically strong and fit yet others on the range with half my strength or size are able to pummel the ball long distances. Obviously its not size that matters but technique and ball striking so i've always known my technique sucked since i wasn't achieving the distance that I wanted. I've always suspected that i was scooping or flipping the ball as well, hence the high ball flight and on the course i would rarely take a divot. Re-reading your sequence of events in the swing, i can't help but think when i first began to learn how to swing a club, i learned on the range on mats for a while before stepping onto a real grass course. I remember many times the numbing sensation of grounding my club into the mat and feeling the pain in my hands through my elbows and into my shoulders. I feel as if i developed a "defensive" instinct to pull out of my swing right at impact or slight before, hence i'm basically swing at the ball and not through it for fear of hitting the mat and injuring myself. Your post makes sense, i think i'm decelerating near the bottom of my swing in order to pull up out of it prematurely or in preparation of such a thing, hence the bent arms at the bottom. I can't wait to hit the range now to work on the things that you mentioned. I do have a couple of follow up questions though, at the bottom, if the arms need to be straight at impact, should they be straight more in towards my groin as suggested in this thread or out more or at the same spot as my setup? Which leads me to ask about my arms/hands relative to my groin at setup, do you think that is the proper distance? Also, should you keep your head fixed with eyes on where the ball was after impact until your body rotation pulls you out? i'm sure the answer is yes and i'm just pulling up at impact as mentioned before with the club head decelerated right before or at impact as a result. :( so much to work on and think on..............

[ERdiesel]

Hi all, I've been working on improving my swing (with an instructor)........refer to http://thesandtrap.com/forum/threads...ht=#post443020 for my old swing. i've been working on better posture, a shallower swing plane, keeping my left arm straight throughout including into impact, and swinging the club more from the inside and around my body and "releasing" the club.

Apologies for the weird not so quite down the line angle but I was trying to balance my iphone on my bag and i don't think i quite got it framed perfectly.

Any/all comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[DavidFehertysBike]

It looks like you werent very happy with the shot...

[ERdiesel]

It looks like you werent very happy with the shot...

hahahaha, actually the shot was a pretty good one. To be honest, not sure why i didn't hold my finish and looked to my left..........i'm thinking my instructor was down the line and I wanted to see if he saw for validation :) Hold on, maybe i'll swap that one out for another where i finish, or just add the second........

[DavidFehertysBike]

hahahaha, actually the shot was a pretty good one. To be honest, not sure why i didn't hold my finish and looked to my left..........i'm thinking my instructor was down the line and I wanted to see if he saw for validation :)

oooh. It looks like a pretty soild swing though. Posture and balance looked good. It does look like you hold off the face through impact though. A vertical shaft position at the finish is supposed to be a indicator of that.

[ERdiesel]

oooh. It looks like a pretty soild swing though. Posture and balance looked good. It does look like you hold off the face through impact though. A vertical shaft position at the finish is supposed to be a indicator of that.

your feedback is greatly appreciated!!! when you say "hold off the face through impact" do you mean not releasing by turning my wrists over quick enough?

[DavidFehertysBike]

your feedback is greatly appreciated!!! when you say "hold off the face through impact" do you mean not releasing by turning my wrists over quick enough?

Not really, it just means it looked like you were trying to force the face to sqaure up by holding onto the club too tight. I used to do that and ended up in a simiar finish. A cut or push was usually the result.

[ERdiesel]

Not really, it just means it looked like you were trying to force the face to sqaure up by holding onto the club too tight. I used to do that and ended up in a simiar finish. A cut or push was usually the result.

any advice on fixing it? i generally do have a tendency to swing very fast and as a result grip onto the club very hard...........something that's proving difficult to fix.

[ERdiesel]

Another video from the same range session

[saevel25]

16 handicap with that swing, time to go to the putting green and short game area ;b

[DavidFehertysBike]

any advice on fixing it?

Some people just have faster tempos, thats ok. But you have to lighten that grip. You cant rotate anything above your waist properly with a death grip on the club. You'll stop the swing at the ball. Its hard to tell from the video, but it doesnt seem like you have any path issues into the ball. So just work on the grip pressure.

[ERdiesel]

Some people just have faster tempos, thats ok. But you have to lighten that grip. You cant rotate anything above your waist properly with a death grip on the club. You'll stop the swing at the ball. Its hard to tell from the video, but it doesnt seem like you have any path issues into the ball. So just work on the grip pressure.

You're right, i really hold onto the club with a "death grip". Its something that i really struggle with, probably because it just seems counter-intuitive to hold the club "lightly" when i "feel" as if i'm swinging fast enough that i feel as if i don't hold on tightly the club will fly out of my hands.