Clones broke!!

[HytrewQasdfg]

He's

It amazes me that the people that are defending the clones still don't understand the difference between the club pictured above and this:

They both cost the same. They both are the same quality. I don't think a single person on this board would have an issue with someone playing the inexpensive Wilson Prostaff club. So, if the issue people have with clones isn't the cost or the quality , what is it? The issue is the clone is trying to take advantage of the goodwill of another company that the clone has not earned. The clone company is trying to make people think it is "almost" like the high end expensive Ping, when infact it is actually like the inexpensive Wilson Prostaff set found at Wal-Mart. Clone makers are decpetive in their practices. It's not about money, it's about integrity. You don't try and steal another company's goodwill (and for those of you that aren't business savy, the biggest value of most companies is the goodwill built up around the name) by cloning their products.

[shades9323]

It amazes me that the people that are defending the clones still don't understand the difference between the club pictured above and this:

That is hogwash. If Ping thought they were being "harmed" or "stolen from" do you think these clone manufacturers would still be in business? They aren't stealing anything from Ping. So if the walmart clubs and the clone clubs are the same price and the same quality, it shouldn't matter.

[shades9323]

I agree with the word "inexpensive" as well. Funny though, I just got off the phone with a guy that wants to sell his G10s white dots for $250. I was fitted for green dots. Don't know if that will make much of a difference, but I'm thinking about it.

You can send those back to Ping and they will bend them to green dots and repaint the dots for about $30 + shipping.

[nuck81]

It amazes me that the people that are defending the clones still don't understand the difference between the club pictured above and this:

That is completely asinine. The only way this scenario comes into play is companies selling complete counterfits. Fakes that have the same name, same paint job, but are fake. Clubs crooks sell under their coats in back alleys. And I'm sure there is now way anyone is going to think a set of Pong H11's are the exact same thing as G10's.

[HytrewQasdfg]

That is hogwash. If Ping thought they were being "harmed" or "stolen from" do you think these clone manufacturers would still be in business? They aren't stealing anything from Ping. So if the walmart clubs and the clone clubs are the same price and the same quality, it shouldn't matter.

And you think Ping hasn't tried to stop them? The clone companies stay just this side of trademark infringement. There are a lot of actions that are legal that aren't right. Let me ask you this: if they aren't trying to steal some of Ping's goodwill, why do they make a club that looks like a Ping and label it Pong?

It's all part of the story line where they try to convince you it is almost a good as the real thing. Every part of their sales pitch is an attempt to convice you they just as good as the real thing, just cheaper. That, imho, is a deceptive practice. If they told you the truth--it looks like a Ping, but is Wal-Mart Wilson quality--do you think they would sell nearly as many clubs? I'm not surprised they play fine, so do the Wal-Mart Wilsons. The law of diminishing returns for quality tells you that. Think of quality levels as a staircase, where the height of each step is 1/2 the height of the previous step, but the effort to climb that next (smaller) step is more than all the previous steps combined. It's easy (and cheap) to build a club that is 80% as good as a Ping, but the cost escalate quickly as you go up in quality. I have no doubt clones are 80% as good as the real thing (so are the Wal-Mart Wilsons). What I have a problem with is their implication that they are 90, 95, or 98% as good as the real thing. They aren't, because the effort (and thus cost) to acheive those levels of quality (as small an increase as that may seem to be over 80%) would force them to price their product closer to the level of the real thing.

[nuck81]

And you think Ping hasn't tried to stop them? The clone companies stay just this side of trademark infringement. There are a lot of actions that are legal that aren't right. Let me ask you this: if they aren't trying to steal some of Ping's goodwill, why do they make a club that looks like a Ping and label it Pong?

Actually the biggest defference between a brand name Ping G10, and a cavity back "Wal-Mart" club is the shaft. "Wal-Mart" heads are cast from the same molds at the same factories as Ping and other OEMS, they just slap cheap crappy shafts on them.

[Ash1974]

BTW, how do you like the I15s?

I love them mate, not too hard to hit either so should last me a long time

Guy's, come on JTjohns asked a question and we have answered his question, enough of the clone bashing

[gmanuel25]

Great arguements caused by............... a broken ferrule!

[HytrewQasdfg]

Actually the biggest defference between a brand name Ping G10, and a cavity back "Wal-Mart" club is the shaft. "Wal-Mart" heads are cast from the same molds at the same factories as Ping and other OEMS, they just slap cheap crappy shafts on them.

The biggest difference is the quality control.

The Ping head will be made with a consistent quality of metal. The Wal-Mart heads will be made of whatever metal that is available on the market, that might mean the same as the Pings or it might mean scrap metal from automobiles and refrigerators. A Ping head that is 30 grams too light (due to an air pocket having formed in the casting) will be rejected. A Wal-Mart head that is 30 grams too light will be passed into production. The loft/lie tollerances on a Ping head is probably 1 degree after casting, and the heads are adjusted to the correct loft/lie before shipping. The loft/lie tollerance on a Wal-Mart head is probably at least 3 degrees, and no adjustments are made to correct the loft/lie (this is why on less expensive sets it isn't unusual to have two adjoinging clubs (say the 7 & 8 iron) that have the exact same loft, because the 8 is too strong and the 7 too weak). The bits and blades on the machinery to level the face and cut the grooves on the Pings are changed at specific intervals to maintain a specific quality level. The faces and grooves of the Wal-Mart clubs are probably cut using the "worn out" Ping bits and blades, becuase while they are no longer in good enough condition to use on Pings, they are probably still have plenty of (lower quality) life left in them that is good enough for the Wal-Mart clubs. The list could get pretty long, but the point is to make a cheaper club you have to take quality control short cuts and allow things to pass into the market that would be rejected by a higher quality (and more expensive) clubmaker.

[Ash1974]

Great arguements caused by............... a broken ferrule!

Exactly my point above.....

I think this thread should be locked now.

[sean_miller]

A Ping head that is 30 grams too light (due to an air pocket having formed in the casting) will be rejected.

I'm not sure about golf club manufacutring terminology, but "30 grams" in the regular world is pretty heavy. There's no way that would pass anyone's inspection. BTW - I buy golf balls at Walmart. I wonder if they Top Flites, Titleists, Nikes, and Wilsons they carry are worse than those purchased at the golf shop?

[sean_miller]

I love them mate, not too hard to hit either so should last me a long time

Someone could start a new clone-bashing thread, but why? This one has "clones" right in the title. Great for searching.

[HytrewQasdfg]

I'm not sure about golf club manufacutring terminology, but "30 grams" in the regular world is pretty heavy. There's no way that would pass anyone's inspection. BTW - I buy golf balls at Walmart. I wonder if they Top Flites, Titleists, Nikes, and Wilsons they carry are worse than those purchased at the golf shop?

Sand wedge heads often weigh over 300 grams. A 10% variance in weight (30 grams) is not unrealistic.

I once purchased some "economy" True Temper iron shafts. Their bottom of the line shaft that went for about $4 each. They were speced at 125 grams. I took them home and weighed them. They varied from 110 to almost 140 grams (a 30 gram variance). Took 'em back. TT is a name manufacturer, but because it was a low end item they saved money by lowering the quality control on that item. That's often why cheap items are cheap--corners are cut on quality control. As far as the golf balls, you are mixing apples and oranges, and we both know it. The Wilson Zip ball sold at Wal-Mart is the exact same Wilson Zip ball sold at Golfsmith. On the other hand, the Wilson Prostaff club line sold at Wal-Mart is different thant the Wilson Staff line sold at Golfsmith. Everyone knows it, everyone recongizes they are different, there is no attempt by anyone to fool people into thinking they are the same quality clubs. And therein lies my problem with clones. They are trying to fool people into thinking their Pong clubs are somehow equivalent to Ping clubs. They aren't. They are a lower quality product.

[nuck81]

The biggest difference is the quality control.

8 out of 10 forum posters don't know what they are talking about.

7/10 facts on internet forums are made up by the poster 5/10 guys don't know the difference between compnent and clone club makers. See I can make up statistics too!! It's fun. You don't really know what goes on in the club making process do you? You;re probably just pissed that you spent $1200 on your clubs and still can;t break 100. Depending on where you buy them from, compnent clubs are just as reliable and just as high quality as OEM. More so if you get them custom fit...

[nuck81]

And therein lies my problem with clones. They are trying to fool people into thinking their Pong clubs are somehow equivalent to Ping clubs. They aren't. They are a lower quality product.

Depends on who and what you buy them from. Some COMPONENT club makers, not clones, make just as high quality stuff as the leading mass produced OEM manufacterers. And they use better shafts as well...

[sean_miller]

Sand wedge heads often weigh over 300 grams. A 10% variance in weight (30 grams) is not unrealistic.

Wilson ProStaff actually makes some pretty good stuff - not all of it is great, and the shafts are not the best, but not every top end OEM product ever released was golden either - there are some duds. Every tried Adams hybrids? I demoed 3 different Adams lines yesterday - there was some pretty sketchy stuff there. On some of their shafts, I think the "S" stands for "spaghetti".

[rickp]

I could be wrong but I believe you get what you pay for. Clones are not the way I prefer to go.

[golfro]

what a mess of a thread...

I personally like supporting a company/brand. I've never hit a clone so I can't attest for its quality or anything but I agree with others in this thread...in this day and age, with clubs being discounted heavily each year, it's not too difficult to find a nice discontinued brand new OEM set for a decent price. Not to mention a huge selection of used clubs just off craigslist, ebay, any local pro shop.

There is a big controversy regarding Chinese automobile manufacturers ripping off the designs of German cars. Sure theres a different car label and is branded differently so its not completely ripping off the product but I respect the labor and engineering that goes into designing and manufacturing a car...and companies that work to merely copy the design undermines all that.

Its the same with golf clubs. Cloned golf clubs are undermining the work that was put in to creating a unique set of irons that was meticulously engineered and designed by professionals. Sure at the end of the day, they still get paid salary and life moves on, but as someone who respects great engineering, design, and art, I'm against clones and rip offs.