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Posted
Hi guys,

My driver had been great for the longest time with a very slight draw, but the last 4 rounds I have been hooking my driver pretty bad.

Can you guys give me any ideas of what could cause this so I can head to the range and work on it.

My irons have been great as well as my putting, but I keep hitting it OB or into places where I have to use a stroke just top get it back on the fairway....and my game is suffering.

For instance, this weekend I played 36 holes and only hit 10 fairways.

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Posted
Many different things. But for me, the ball goes left when i get too quick. In general, I hate seeing the ball turn left. It just doenst conjure good feelings for me. So i make tempo a big priority in my swing to avoid hitting hooks and draws.
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Posted
So would it be my arms beating my hips or vica versa?

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Posted
So would it be my arms beating my hips or vica versa?

Could be. there are a hundread different reasons that you could be hooking the ball. I was just explaining why i do it and thought maybe it was relevant. If you were to ask most common, i would guess a closed clubface throughout most of the swing to be the culprit.

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Posted
Your club face is closed at impact or your swing is too inside - out

Well one of the two are out of whack for sure. I suffer from hooks as well.

If you look on here or wait someone will explain that the theory is that a closed clubface to the path of the swing (not necessarily the target) imparts the hook spin on a ball. You may be shutting down the face which would result in shots that look like duck hooks or swing too far in to out. If the hips have not came through that could force you to swing too far out. Might want to check that. If you draw the ball you are already swinging out.

Posted
So would it be my arms beating my hips or vica versa?

could be, because the opposite of that, getting your hips to quick before your upperbody will usually cause slices... so that sounds probable.

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Posted
Could be a variety of things. I know the hooks creep into my drives when I get too quick or when I get too handsy on the downswing.

Posted
does it start left and go left, or does it start right and just curve alot sharper left?

If you have a draw i suspec the second, which would mean you probably are comming to far from the inside, decreasing the angle between the clubface and the swing pat, which would impart more side spin on the ball.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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Posted
Please tell us where the ball starts in relation to your target and how much of a hook we're talking about from there. For example, "10 yards right, hooks 30 yards to end up 20 yards left" is a different shot than "starts at the target, hooks 20 yards left."

If it's NOT the clubface being too closed at impact, then what I see from a lot of amateurs is that they swing well out to the right. They come out of their inclination on the downswing and lose all connection under their left arm and just throw the clubhead out to the right. A down-the-line video is great at showing this.

An alternative is that your upper body is really pushing forward too much on the downswing. Moving that upper swing center forward can get you swinging quite a bit from the inside as well. Face-on video would show us this.

Got the video?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Posted
I will get a video this week when i go out for twilight.

My ball starts straight down the line then goes left, it may start slightly down the right as my normal draw.....but it hooks, up to 60 yards sometimes. Distance is fine, it never dives off sharp and dies at 100 yards. It will be nearly as far as my normal drive, just hooked left.

I will try going less in to out and see what happens

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Posted
Are you hitting the ball and different with the rest of the clubs in your bag? Swing getting stronger perhaps? I notice your irons and hybrids are Stiff and your driver is a Regular flex. The extra right to left on your driver could be a smaller timing thing in your swing that is being exaggerated by the longer, softer shaft in the driver.

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Posted
Irons are good, NEVER hook them. Hybrids I do sometimes, but not near as much as I have been with my driver, and not as bad if it does happen.

I will practice with some tempo at the range this week, maybe a slower back swing and see if ti helps.

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Posted
Hmm... Well if it starts off right or straight then hooks, you are comming way to much from the inside. This tells me your clubface is square to the target line or slightly open to, but its very closed to the swing path

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
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Posted
I will get a video this week when i go out for twilight.

If the ball is starting down the line, then, based on your handicap, you probably have a slight over the top move with the driver. Being that you are a good player, your body is good enough to react and square it up resulting in an over the top hook DTL and then turning left. Try focusing on shifting you weight forward (laterally) and hitting the ball to right field (that should get you to come from the inside with a push draw). Good luck.

Deryck Griffith

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Posted
If the ball is starting down the line, then, based on your handicap, you probably have a slight over the top move with the driver. Being that you are a good player, your body is good enough to react and square it up resulting in an over the top hook DTL and then turning left. Try focusing on shifting you weight forward (laterally) and hitting the ball to right field (that should get you to come from the inside with a push draw). Good luck.

A shot that starts on the target line and hooks cannot result from an over the top move.

A shot toward the target initially usually means a clubface that is relatively in line with the target. The hook afterwards is caused by the relationship between the swing path and clubface. In this case, his clubface is square and his swing path is in to out (to what degree, we don't know).

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  • Administrator
Posted
If the ball is starting down the line, then, based on your handicap, you probably have a slight over the top move with the driver. Being that you are a good player, your body is good enough to react and square it up resulting in an over the top hook DTL and then turning left. Try focusing on shifting you weight forward (laterally) and hitting the ball to right field (that should get you to come from the inside with a push draw). Good luck.

Warning to anyone who reads this post: the poster seems to be completely unaware of the actual ball flight laws. I apologize if that's harsh, but there's no longer any excuse to get this type of thing wrong, and it may be the single biggest cause of bad instruction and bad information over the past 30+ years of golf instruction. If this player were to swing MORE to the right he'd just get BIGGER duck hooks. http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Note: This thread is 5666 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. 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Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
    • Day 6 - 2025-12-25 10 minutes of swing work on the mat and net. Focus on turn and weight shift.
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