Yet another rules question...

[cougar978]

OK - 7th hole at the Hamptons is a 560yd par 5 with tall grass on either side of the fairway (by tall, I mean unmowed, native grass that's knee-high). I lose my tee shot right and it goes into said high grass. After finding my ball, I find another ball directly behind my ball and remove it, therefore in theory improving my lie by eliminating the abanoned ball from my swing plane, but not distrubing the grass. I hack my ball out of the tall grass back into the fairway.

Would I be subject to penalty for improving my lie by removing the abandoned ball, or is it considered a loose impediment and therefore no penalty? BTW, the high grass is not staked as a hazard (through the green).

[mcotter]

loose impediment. no penalty.

[pittpanther]

  mcotter said:

loose impediment. no penalty.

Not exactly. A random golf ball affecting your stance or swing would qualify as a

movable obstruction , not a loose impediment... Still can be moved without penalty.

[zeg]

  pittpanther said:

Not exactly. A random golf ball affecting your stance or swing would qualify as a

And this is NOT a pointless distinction. In this case it's not material, but were you in a bunker, you'd be allowed to remove a movable obstruction but not a loose impediment.

[Fourputt]

Just for clarity. There seem to have been several threads recently where there was confusion over the difference between a

loose impediment and a movable obstruction . Here are the definitions, straight out of the Rules of Golf. As Zeg says, it makes a huge difference in some cases.

  None said:

Loose Impediments "Loose impediments" are natural objects including: · stones, leaves, twigs, branches and the like, · dung, and · worms, insects and the like, and the casts and heaps made by them, provided they are not: · fixed or growing, · solidly embedded, or · adhering to the ball. Sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the putting green, but not elsewhere. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Dew and frost are not loose impediments.

  None said:

Obstructions An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice, except: a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings; b. Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and c. Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course. An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction. Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.

[jetsknicks1]

While reading this a question came to mind. My playing partner & I both hit into the same bunker. I'm away but there is a very good chance that I will hit or cause his ball to move by the act of hitting mine. Is it legal for my partner to mark & move his ball?

[IceDave]

He can mark it and recreate the lie as it was before you hit your shot, if I remember correctly.

[Fourputt]

  jetsknicks1 said:

While reading this a question came to mind. My playing partner & I both hit into the same bunker. I'm away but there is a very good chance that I will hit or cause his ball to move by the act of hitting mine. Is it legal for my partner to mark & move his ball?

Yes. If his lie altered he can recreate it before replacing his ball. In Stroke play he also has the option of playing before you do, if playing in that order would result in neither of you having your lie altered. He can't choose to do that if he would then need to have your ball lifted.

[jetsknicks1]

  IceDave said:

He can mark it and recreate the lie as it was before you hit your shot, if I remember correctly.

  Fourputt said:

Yes. If his lie altered he can recreate it before replacing his ball. In Stroke play he also has the option of playing before you do, if playing in that order would result in neither of you having your lie altered. He can't choose to do that if he would then need to have your ball lifted.

Thanks for the info guys.

[zeg]

  IceDave said:

He can mark it and recreate the lie as it was before you hit your shot, if I remember correctly.

So am I correct that the procedure is to mark the ball, but leave it in place until after the shot?

Also, what if the second player to hit was the second to land in the bunker and his ball affects the lie of the first? IIRC, you're generally entitled to the lie that your ball found when it settled, so do you lift the second ball so the first can recreate his lie, or does he have to deal with the other ball's being there?