St Andrews

[Plox]

I'll be completely honest here; I pretty much despise this course. Home of golf? I don't subscribe to all this sentimentality when it comes to St Andrews, as I genuinely think it's the most overrated course in existence.

To actually play it? A field. Literally the worst links course I've played, and I'm lucky enough to live in the North west of England, so I've played Formby, Southport and Ainsdale, Birkdale, Hillside, Hesketh etc. Let's take Hillside, for example; to say it's superior in every way to St Andrews is a vast understatement.

To watch it on TV? Again, pretty painful imo. I'm not exaggerating when I say it pretty much spoils to the Open as a television spectacle for me. I've spoken to a few other people who have also played the course and they pretty much agreed, so it didn't seem to be just me! Does anyone else feel the same?

[Shorty]

If you have no sense of history and/or are a poor golfer, I am sure that this would be the case. The course's charms are not obvious to many. No-one is saying that St Andrews is the "best" course. No-one would argue that some of the courses you mention have different attributes, and certainly some "better" holes. That is not the point. As for it being the "home of golf" which you derisively place in inverted commas, where is you argument against that idea? It;s nothing to do with sentimentality, it's about history, but folks like you probably think that they are one and the same.
I think I'd back Jack Nicklaus on this one, rather than you. Sorry. You can try to be provocative, but you are missing the point entirely. Is Augusta the best course in the U.S.? Far from it. It might not even be in the top 10. What does that prove? Nothing. But as a place for drama and great stories, it rates right up there, just as St. Andrews does.

[holeinon3]

Yeah St. Andrews is special to the game of golf, there is no denying that..

[Plox]

Shorty, if you think I'm trying to be prevocative, you have completely the wrong end of the stick. My rant is because, in my opinion, it's not good enough to be an open course. So, please, spare me your ignorant comments about "poor golfers" etc; it's like saying you can't have an opinion on Mcdonalds because you're not a chef. Also, it's not that those other course have "different attributes", they're just much, much better courses all around imo.

[colin007]

from what i have seen on tv, i cant imagine that its the type of course i would want to play over something like oakmont, bethpage, liberty national, pinehurst...etc...

[sean_miller]

I'll be completely honest here;

I'd like to be able play it some day, among many other courses in the UK.

[mcfc_nick]

i love it me, i think its awesome

[Shorty]

Shorty, if you think I'm trying to be prevocative, .................. My rant is because, in my opinion, it's not good enough to be an open course.

What do you mean "It's not good enough"? It's been held there 27 times since 1873 for crying out loud.

You are clearly ignorant about why the Open is held there. Where have you read Tom Watson or Greg Norman, or Ballesteros or Nicklaus saying it's "not good enough"? What is your "opinion" worth?

[mjtoal]

The OP just doesn't get it. Some people take time to get it, and a few of the imagination-challenged just never get it. Can't please all of the people.

But I think the OP should notify Peter Dawson (Secretary of the R&A;) immediately. The Open doesn't start till Thursday. Maybe there is still time to move it!

[Plox]

What is your "opinion" worth?

Are you serious with this question, on a discussion board of all places? Next time you have an opinion on something, maybe you shouldn't give it just in case someone deems it not 'worthy'? I'd like to know how something as subjective as an opinion could be quantified, as well. Great logic, buddy. You disagree with me; fine. But I'm not speaking ignorantly; I've played the course, just like I've been lucky enough to play many other great links and St Andrews just doesn't come anywhere near. I honestly don't care what other professionals have to say about it, as it would be ridiculous for me to ignore my own views and feelings.

[brgolf]

Plox

You misunderstand discussion forums. Opinions are judged based on merit. You have the freedom to say what you want and the rest of us have the freedom to judge it. Also I don't see why you would point to logic when the fact is- if you don't give a hoot about what Nicklaus thinks, then why would you care what I have to say...

[sean_miller]

Are you serious with this question, on a discussion board of all places? Next time you have an opinion on something, maybe you shouldn't give it just in case someone deems it not 'worthy'? I'd like to know how something as subjective as an opinion could be quantified, as well. Great logic, buddy. You disagree with me; fine. But I'm not speaking ignorantly; I've played the course, just like I've been lucky enough to play many other great links and St Andrews just doesn't come anywhere near. I honestly don't care what other professionals have to say about it, as it would be ridiculous for me to ignore my own views and feelings.

It's not the most photogenic of the links courses that's for sure - it's no Whistling Staits or Pebble Beach that's for sure. Golfwise, I have to take others word for it - not many people in this discussion have played it.

[mjtoal]

Are you serious with this question, on a discussion board of all places? Next time you have an opinion on something, maybe you shouldn't give it just in case someone deems it not 'worthy'? I'd like to know how something as subjective as an opinion could be quantified, as well. Great logic, buddy. You disagree with me; fine. But I'm not speaking ignorantly; I've played the course, just like I've been lucky enough to play many other great links and St Andrews just doesn't come anywhere near. I honestly don't care what other professionals have to say about it, as it would be ridiculous for me to ignore my own views and feelings.

Well, what did you expect?

Either people to come on and say 'what a twat!' or words to that effect, or should we have responded by acclaiming you as the visionary who removed the scales from our eyes, here with us fools believing the word of Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods (and others) all of whom thought it was a great course which provided a subtle test of course management and imagination? I therefore acclaim you as a troll, who seeks to provoke others. Congratulations.

[Chilli Dipper]

Bobby Jones so despised St. Andrews that he walked off the Old Course in the middle of the first tournament he played there. That opinion changed over time.

[Shorty]

Are you serious with this question, on a discussion board of all places? Next time you have an opinion on something, maybe you shouldn't give it just in case someone deems it not 'worthy'? I'd like to know how something as subjective as an opinion could be quantified, as well. Great logic, buddy. You disagree with me; fine. But I'm not speaking ignorantly; I've played the course, just like I've been lucky enough to play many other great links and St Andrews just doesn't come anywhere near. I honestly don't care what other professionals have to say about it, as it would be ridiculous for me to ignore my own views and feelings.

Your opinion is worthless because of the way you have stated it. Of course opinions can be quantified. We're not talkinhg about the weather or whetehr Porsches are nicer than Ferraris. You are saying that the Open should not be played at St. Andrews. That is an opinion astounding in its arrogance and stupidity.

You didn't say that of all the courses on the Open rota, you personally find St Andrews to be the least interesting. If you said that, fine, many would agree with you. Your comment is stupid and not worthy of respect becuase it underlines the fact - and you have several opportunities to corret this - that you believe that Open courses are, or should be chosen becuase of how "good" they are. St. Andrews is on the rota because of its unparallelled historical link with the origins of the game, not becuase it is a great course. Many think it is, but that is beside the point. You don't have to care what the best players ever to have played think about St. Andrews, and as your comments imply considerable ignorance, I doubt whether you'll find a single person to agree with you. You will find millions who prefer other courses to Sy. Andrews, but how many people who know anything at all about golf will say that the Open shouldn't be played there? I'll wager none.

[billysandy]

I'll be there on Sunday. I am not sure what Plox expected when posting something as provocative as this, but arguments on the internet just do it for some people.

[londonhusker]

Interestingly, a UK golf reporter for the Guardian didn't know much about St Andrews either. Tiger's practice today was in a lot of wind, causing this guy to write "and his tee-shot on the 11th, which ended up on the 7th green – that might have given him cause for concern..."

The Old course has several large double greens, sharing both the out & back holes. The 7th and 11th holes share the same green . The report sounded a bit sensational, but the actual holes were probably only about 100 feet apart!

[Radford Wooly]

It's the history that makes it a great course. It's one of my favorite tournaments to watch on T.V, cause the course is so different from ours here in the U.S. I just like St. Andrews I guess.