Violence in N Ireland...

[senorchipotle]

regarding the violence in belfast over the past few days, i've got a few questions hopefully some of you irish chaps can help me with.

1. why would people who live in belfast start random violence in belfast, only hurting their fellow irishmen?
2. do they honestly believe that damaging property and hurting police is going to make anybody want to listen to them?
3. most of these people weren't even born before the ira lay down their arms, essentially they don't nor have they ever had anything at stake, so what's their motivation for a n. irish republic?
4. let's say n. ireland is given their freedom to be an autonomous country, or to join with their irish brothers, how would that make life any better/worse in n. ireland, in other words, would things change for the better or worse?

[brgolf]

regarding the violence in belfast over the past few days, i've got a few questions hopefully some of you irish chaps can help me with.

1. The only "Irishmen" hurt so far have been the police. Whereas this kind of activity might have been more widespread 10 years ago it is now a very small minority dissident republican element in certain enclaves of Belfast which are responsible. The police are viewed as legitimate targets as part of the British state but those responsible are living in the past because the Royal Ulster Constabulary fundamentally changed about became the Police Service of Northern Ireland- even supported by Sinn Fein.

2. In the past a violent resistance has arguably yielded results for people with a cause but those that are responsible this time have very little support. The current trouble is rioting but people with similar political views have killed soldiers, police and planted bombs on several occasions recently. 3. Originally the troubles started for a variety of reasons, one of which was the denial of basic civil rights to the nationalist people. After a long campaign of Violence the IRAs political wing Sinn Fein- now the largest nationalist party- engaged in a purely political process. The goal for all Nationalists is still a United Ireland. That basically comes down to identity. There is a softening of relationships, people tend to get on very well these days, Protestant of Catholic but no one can deny their tradition. 4. Northern Ireland is in many ways an autonomous country now as increasing powers have been devolved to the provinces assembly including control over policing and justice. Northern Ireland is of course a country! Joining with their Irish brothers is a much less likely outcome. This will realistically happen when the majority of the citizens of Northern Ireland are catholic which at the minute they are not. The nearest analogy I can give you was to suppose Germany had won the war and now occupied England. Do you think England would feel it would be better if things changed. N.Ireland is being occupied but this has been the case for 300 years- people become settled, cultures become settled and in the end the Protestant people despite the way they came about to be here have made it home. It wasn't so long ago the whole Island was part of Britain so times are changing and even though I was born in Northern Ireland I have an Irish passport and can legally call myself Irish, British or Northern Irish. So it's a place for everyone. That's why the rioting is so ridiculous and unnecessary.

[senorchipotle]

thanks man, well worded and very thorough answers. appreciated.

[Joeyvee]

I didnt understand it a whole lot either and My grandparents were Irish immigrants. Do you think now that the Irish economy has taken off that England will ever be able to loosen its grip on the republic? I dont get it. Amidst everything going on in the world today how can they still hold onto those territories?

[brgolf]

I didnt understand it a whole lot either and My grandparents were Irish immigrants. Do you think now that the Irish economy has taken off that England will ever be able to loosen its grip on the republic? I dont get it. Amidst everything going on in the world today how can they still hold onto those territories?

The Irish economy is currently in one of the worst positions of any in Europe but economic reasons have never been and probably will never be the reason for N. Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom.

[Cussin hacker]

BRgolf Thanks for the education..... I've always been a bit curious about this and found your brief history lesson very interesting.

[Joeyvee]

The Irish economy is currently in one of the worst positions of any in Europe but economic reasons have never been and probably will never be the reason for N. Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom.

Really? I must be well mistaken then. I have heard (not in the past 2-3 years) that a lot of outsourcing was getting sent there and lots of tech jobs getting sent to Ireland and that their economy was taking off.. Im not very well informed.

So.. Why the hell Do they refuse to grant those territories over to irish rule?

[brgolf]

Really? I must be well mistaken then. I have heard (not in the past 2-3 years) that a lot of outsourcing was getting sent there and lots of tech jobs getting sent to Ireland and that their economy was taking off.. Im not very well informed.

The economy took off in 1994 and crashed in 2007.

The historic answer about a United Ireland was the risk of a civil war and that is why in 1921 6 counties remained part of the UK. The modern answer is that there is a political settlement where it would take a referendum to instigate the change.

[PaddyHarrington]

Well said brgolf, very well said in fact.
It's nice to hear a calm and balanced viewpoint rather than the usual "I hate Catholics" or I hate them Proddy bastards" argument that you normanly get on this topic.

Personally as a proud Irishman I am disgusted with some of the Republican activities in the North the past few days, what really annoys me is these thugs seem to think they represent all the Irish people, it embarresses me when I see them wave Irish tricolours as they certianly don't represent me or what I stand for.

On the other hand do I agree with the Orange marches? No I don't i think it is rubbing our faces in it a little.

I also can't or won't ever consider Northern Ireland as a country, no offence to you brgolf it's just to me I see that area of Ireland as being occupied by a foreign country, also Londonderry doesn't exsist in my eyes, it will always be and should be Derry.

Would I want a United Ireland? Of course I would but I would agree a lot of people have now made their home there and all traditions would need to be respected to a degree.
I actually believe though many Catholics in the North would prefer to remain part of the UK, I'm sure there are benefits where being part of the UK would outweigh being part of a United Ireland and being goverend by Dublin again, maybe the idea of a United Ireland is more of a romantic one and really the hard facts are they might be better off financally and other ways staying part of the UK.

I'm not sure how much coverage the events have got over the last few days in the American media, I have no doubt it probably has been sensationlized no end, it has barely made TV reports here to be honest.

At the end of the day I know good people from both parts of the divide,there are good and bad on both sides.
Will it affect my life if Ireland was once again a 32 county state? Not in the slighest, I will still live my life as I am and nothing would change , it's the people in the North who would have to face a change,but as a Irishman I would dearly love it to happen in my lifetime.

[brgolf]

It is also my choice to refer to Londonderry as Derry and Northern Ireland as a part of Ireland but when it comes to the reality on occasions you have to accept that we still use GBP as currency and that government departments are merely devolved from Westminster.

The orange marches are a manifestation of culture and identity which people hold to dearly regardless of how objectively these gatherings are in poor taste. There are some very hardcore elements in those institutions and there are many people who are just people really engaging in the culture they have.

The more you engage with politics in Northern Ireland the more entrenched you become and there is no point in anyone being angry about it. I mightn't much like the marches but I've been in a town which was having a whole evening of parades and it was actually a good event for the people.

[KD Epic]

Every time the Lakers win a championship there is violence.

If someone from Ireland asked me to explain that, I'm afraid I'd be without an answer =P

[James_Black]

Every time the Lakers win a championship there is violence.

there's a big difference between basketball and hundreds of years of British rule lol.

[senorchipotle]

I'm not sure how much coverage the events have got over the last few days in the American media, I have no doubt it probably has been sensationlized no end, it has barely made TV reports here to be honest.

as if. the american media cover only anything that is politically expedient for them. the american media offer very little scope into world affairs. i was watching the bbc when i heard about the rioting.

[alf174]

as if. the american media cover only anything that is politically expedient for them. the american media offer very little scope into world affairs. i was watching the bbc when i heard about the rioting.

American media is terrible when it comes to international news (actually its terrible & biased when it comes to our own too). This is the first I've heard of the trouble & I generally watch our news regularly.

[senorchipotle]

American media is terrible when it comes to international news (actually its terrible & biased when it comes to our own too). This is the first I've heard of the trouble & I generally watch our news regularly.

i was in france a few years ago and there were huge riots in the streets in paris, marseille, and lyon. not a word of it was uttered out of our news sources. and yes, they are biased. they're basically, aside from fox, obama political action committees.