Adjust swing to clubs, or clubs to swing. How do you know which?

[Danattherock]

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So I am reading over at Richie3Jack and run across this very interesting article on club fitting....

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2010/11/te...ubfitting.html


I am 6'6" 290 lbs and for the last ten years or so my clubs have been 1.25" over and 2 deg upright. I read something recently that suggest most pros have more flat lie angles. The article above suggest a tendency for many club fitters to adjust clubs upright as most folks fight a slice. I have never sliced a ball in my life. Faught a hook most of the time. After many swing changes this year, I hit the ball straight or I push it. No hooks and no slices.

So the question I am asking is this. Should I continue modifying my swing to suit my clubs or should I attempt to modify my club specs to better fit my swing. And a preface here, I know very little about proper club fit or the relationship changes to my clubs would have on my ball flight. I can neither confirm nor deny that my club fit is poor. But the article got me wondering. Just how would a mid handicapper like myself determine if the clubs suit the swing (or not). How do you know if your swing is in need of change, or if it is the club specs?

Any comment appreciated.


-Dan

[leo3]

This is kind of a chicken or egg type question. For starters, lets leave Pros and elite amateurs out of this dicussion, as their needs are different than the vast majority of golfers. As amateurs, do we have the same swing every day? If not, which swing should we be fit for? A club you are fit for in a perfect environment, level lie and stance, etc. will be perfect in that environment, but how often do you encounter those conditions on the course? A person as tall as you are will need certain size adjutments, but I believe the majority of folks will be well served with standard equipment. After all +/- 1 degree is not really that huge a difference to the casual weekend player. I have been through several fittings, with recomendations from 1 flat to std. to 1 up, and length from std. to 1/2 " short. I play off the rack standard stuff, and didn't notice any difference with the slight variations of "fitted" equipment.

[Hokie2k5]

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Most pros may be flat because they aren't anywhere close to 6'6", I'd say the average height on tour is probably under 6'. On a mid handicapper, fitting is still important. You won't repeat your swing like a tour pro does but I bet you'd be really surprised with how much you do actually repeat your swing. You want the sole of the club to go through the turf as flat as possible, whether it's 2* flat or 6* upright whatever helps you accomplish that is what you should have. If the sole of your club is hitting the turf either heel first or toe first you may actually be compensating in your swing to try and fix that rather then just letting your "natural swing" swing the way it wants to.

I read somewhere probably 10 years ago that for every 1* of your clubs lie angle being off it's approximately 4 yards that your ball will start off your intended line. So when you start getting into to clubs being 2 or 4 degrees off, you're talking about a pretty significant loss in accuracy and could be the difference in making a birdie or making a bogey or worse. My suggestion would be just to get fitted and see how your irons are working out with the lie angle. Unless you're making significant changes to your swing, your lie angle shouldn't change too much. I've had the same specs (2* upright) for probably the last 10-12 years and my handicap has gone from about an 8 to a 0 so swing isn't the same. Good luck.

[delav]

Seems to be a bit of confusion in the purpose of fitting clubs.

Adjusting a lie should be done to fit the golfers posture and build type, not to correct for ball flight issues. Yes, a flat lie will help fight a hook and a upright lie will help correct a slice (in theory) but this is absolutely the wrong reason to adjust lie.

Also, tour players playing standard or flat lies has more to do with swing mechanics and body types. In general, amateurs stand too far from the ball and swing too steeply, requiring an upright lie. Tour players swing on a better plane with their hands closer to their body at address, resulting average fittings closer to standard or perhaps flat.

[WUTiger]

I've talked to several teaching pros about this, both as a student and related to our blog here.

Most say type of fitting you need depends on stability of your golf swing. For beginners, a static fitting does the most good - you see if the club lie and shaft length matches your stance and body build (height, arm length). If your irons rock back on the heel, you need a flatter lie so you don't pull the ball to the left. If the irons have toe contact at address, you need a more upright lie. Also, look at shaft flex related to clubhead speed.

If you get a stable swing plane - not necessarily a perfect one - then half-day dynamic computerized fittings would have some payoff. (Assuming you can afford to get new clubs after the fitting)

If you radically alter your swing plane, and the change really takes, your old ideal club specs may no longer "fit" your swing.

For example, during my earlier years I used a very upright (Nicklaus) swing. I also developed excessive leg crouch and ended up needing 2* flat irons so I didn't pull the ball.

Anyway, about 2002 or so I went to a flatter swing (Hogan) and a more upright stance and spine angle. Suddenly, I was starting to push the ball slightly, and I needed a draw set-up to keep things on line. This means that the "average" lie in most iron sets now fits me. (I switched to normal lie X20s in 2009).

[Deryck Griffith]

Very interesting thread. I think people adjust their equipment to adjust how the ball flies in the air which isn't necessarily correct. Pros can do this because 9 out of 10 swings they make is the exact same. For amateurs, the "fitting" of a club should only be based on body type and posture like delav said above. Besides that, getting fitted for the proper swing weigt, grip, shaft flex (irons specifically), shaft flex point and shaft length (driver and woods specifically), are the next most important things that should be done by all golfers.

Once this aspect of club fitting is complete, it is up to the golfer to work on his swing by video taping it and fixing faults or getting professional help from an instructor. Dabbling with lie angles and all sorts of other baid aid fixes will not equate to less strokes.

As for being 6'6" Dan, you clubs should be fitted as per your wrist to floor. You may be 6"6" but if you have monkey arms, extra length in your irons may not be necessary. For me, I'm 6'3" and by looking at me casually, you would think I need longer clubs; however, my wrist to floor distance matches up perfectly with standad length irons.