Let singles through please!!!!!

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

No, but if it's busy, they probably wouldn't give the VIP room or the big booth in the corner either. Analogies are fun.

Yeah... you'd be more likely to get a stool at the bar.  The analogy just doesn't work, restaurants have seating for smaller groups than 4 per table, while golf tee times are traditionally intended for 4.

[alo1984]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Yeah... you'd be more likely to get a stool at the bar.  The analogy just doesn't work, restaurants have seating for smaller groups than 4 per table, while golf tee times are traditionally intended for 4.

Around here, with the economy the way it is, golf tee times are intended for whomever will pay for them.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by alo1984

Around here, with the economy the way it is, golf tee times are intended for whomever will pay for them.

I agree, it's no different here.  But on a busy day a single can't choose to play alone just because he wants to.  That is what I was responding to above.  If there is a spot open with another group, that's where he will be placed.  That too, is simple economics.   As a starter, I spend a lot of time on busy days juggling walk on singles and unfilled foursomes to keep the flow on the course as steady as possible, and that usually means that I avoid sending out singles alone if I can.  I prefer to not have a lone player out there trying to play through one group after another and putting a hitch in the hopefully smooth flow on the course.

On a slow day I will probably let him play alone if the space is available - depends on the circumstances - but when the course is busy, I'll save an open tee time for a larger group if possible, and I'll try my best to bunch 2 or more singles together in one group to fill that open time.  A lone single walking on during a busy day takes what he gets.

I have to say that I more often have singles wait voluntarily on a busy day for a larger grouping because they don't want to play alone on a course full of foursomes.  In my experience, most players don't want to be standing and waiting on every shot.  Even playing 2 balls, a single will usually end up waiting more than is comfortable.

[MrKadash]

Interesting we're talking about one of the oldest, most fundamental rules of golf which is let faster players play through, and people (not all) act like the single is the plague.  It's to me, with over 20 years in the business, mystifying.  The idea, however logical or simple, seems to rear it's ugly head throughout the golfing season and is something I'm convinced will never, ever, go away.  That being said, unfortunate as it is, you have to come to expect the reaction if you're a single or in a faster group.  One's sense of entitlement is a tricky thing.

[ProfessorGAC]

Originally Posted by walk18

Wow I see a lot of people here have "no sympathy" for singles. I don't think singles are looking for sympathy, they're just looking to play through. I mean would it really ruin your day to let a single through when the course is empty? Christ.

I'm with you.  I don't get the "i don't have sympathy for singles" thing.  So, if someone reallly enjoys the game, but don't have any friends that do, they should give up the game?

I play alone A LOT.  Some of the folks at the course i like don't like to play as early as i do.  Only one of my friends plays, and he plays as many rounds in 2 years as i do in a month.

So, when i go to the club, there is about 50% chance i'll play alone.  I like the game with or without company.  And, i have NEVER asked to play through.  That being said, i play REALLY fast, (125 minutes for 18 holes when alone, 2:45 with a twosome) and if there's nobody in front of the next group, i really do expect to be asked to go through.  It's common golf courtesy.

Like i said, i'd never ask to go through, but i have expectations about being asked, and with my pace of play, i'm never going to be in the way of the group that just let me through.  Being discourteous just because somebody is playing alone, is ridiculous.

[sean_miller]

Interesting we're talking about one of the oldest, most fundamental rules of golf which is let faster players play through, and people (not all) act like the single is the plague.  It's to me, with over 20 years in the business, mystifying.  The idea, however logical or simple, seems to rear it's ugly head throughout the golfing season and is something I'm convinced will never, ever, go away.  That being said, unfortunate as it is, you have to come to expect the reaction if you're a single or in a faster group.  One's sense of entitlement is a tricky thing.

I'm not sure allowing singletons play through is one of the oldest and most fundamental rules of golf. I do it, and I'm glad others do as well, since I play a lot of times as a single, But I don't expect it and understand if the way people played for generations (that singles have no standing on the tee) is a little bit ingrained. I've caused some friction in the past insisting we let faster groups play through and there have been times when playng through was not an option and the group behind was irate. Some people like to be angry and get in other people's face and they'd find a reason either way, so you just have to play it by ear, until they zing one past your ear, then all bets are off.

[alo1984]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I agree, it's no different here.  But on a busy day a single can't choose to play alone just because he wants to.  That is what I was responding to above.  If there is a spot open with another group, that's where he will be placed.  That too, is simple economics.   As a starter, I spend a lot of time on busy days juggling walk on singles and unfilled foursomes to keep the flow on the course as steady as possible, and that usually means that I avoid sending out singles alone if I can.  I prefer to not have a lone player out there trying to play through one group after another and putting a hitch in the hopefully smooth flow on the course.

On a slow day I will probably let him play alone if the space is available - depends on the circumstances - but when the course is busy, I'll save an open tee time for a larger group if possible, and I'll try my best to bunch 2 or more singles together in one group to fill that open time.  A lone single walking on during a busy day takes what he gets.

I have to say that I more often have singles wait voluntarily on a busy day for a larger grouping because they don't want to play alone on a course full of foursomes.  In my experience, most players don't want to be standing and waiting on every shot.  Even playing 2 balls, a single will usually end up waiting more than is comfortable.

I couldn't agree more.  On occasions that I am a single, the last thing I want to do is get stuck on a course full of bigger groups and try to jockey for position throughout the day.  I have had that happen a couple of times on a course that doesn't have a designated starter.  They just give you a tee time and send you off whether you are a single or a foursome.  THAT is incredibly annoying.

It's much appreciated when I happen on a thoughtful starter such as yourself.  I'd much rather join some nice fellows than stand around waiting all day.

[ERdiesel]

I read most of the first page but not the others, but I too don't understand the disdain towards singles being expressed on this thread.  If a course lets a single on the course on a non busy day, then so what?  That happens to me on non busy days, but on days where the course is busy, i get put into another group. Not such a big deal so long as the single adheres to course etiquette.  Why the heck would it or should it bother you haters?

Okay, with that out of the way.  I am curious.........the OP thought the group in front of him were a bunch of "a-holes" for not proactively waving him through?  I don't recall reading in the original post, the OP ever ASKING the group in front if he could go through.  I actually think that the OP was in the wrong here for just driving through them without asking if he could.  Of course the expectation would be once asked, the foursome should let the single pass through assuming the foursome was not jammed up behind any other groups which in this case they were not.  But for the OP to criticize another group for not taking "initiative" when its the OP who wants something is just plain silly.  Now if the OP asked, and the group in front said no..........and you knew a couple of holes in front were free, then i would understand driving ahead and just playing through regardless.  But to call a bunch of strangers "a-holes" for something that they didn't do to make you happy..........please, get real.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by ERdiesel

I read most of the first page but not the others, but I too don't understand the disdain towards singles being expressed on this thread.  If a course lets a single on the course on a non busy day, then so what?  That happens to me on non busy days, but on days where the course is busy, i get put into another group. Not such a big deal so long as the single adheres to course etiquette.  Why the heck would it or should it bother you haters?

You should have probably read the other pages.

[dhanson]

i only skimmed the thread, so please excuse any redundancies.

very rarely do i go to my home course with a tee time, and even less often do i have someone with me. where i play, it just isn't necessary since the course isn't crowded. it seems like a lot of people don't have the opportunity to go to a course without being paired up with others, which is unfortunate i guess, but understand this isn't the norm everywhere.

when i arrive at the course, i am under the assumption that i am either a) going to have to wait to tee off until there is an available slot or b) that i am going to be paired with another group, but more often than not i can just show up, hit balls, and immediately tee off. marshals are almost always present and just send me on my way.

today, i started off the back. a lot of older men play in the morning and they all started off the front, so the back nine was wide open. made the turn, and on #2 i caught my first foursome (as expected). they let me play through. played two and three, and caught my second foursome on #4 tee. they hit their tee shots, and then let me play through. #5 is an uphill par 5 with a blind second shot (if you're going for the green). the green was occupied as i was going to hit my second shot. i waited, hit, putted out and went to the next tee where the threesome (all in their own carts) were still on the tee. i waited behind them but they didn't acknowledge me. i played behind them, the rest of the way.

now, i did quickly find out there was a foursome of older men walking in front of them (with groups in front of them, too), so i completely understand them not letting me play through. but why not just tell me on #6 tee? if you're not going to let me play through, don't just snub me while i'm in my cart ~20 yards behind the tee, just tell me there's no room in front. the perplexing part about this group was why they didn't ask me to join. they didn't know i started on the back, and were probably under the assumption that i had the entire back nine to play.

(side note) one of the guys in front of me was just ridiculous. he was wearing stretch waist jean shorts with clip-on suspenders and a tee shirt. he'd park his cart so close to tee boxes that he might as well just parked on them. same situation near greens. he was in a fairway bunker on #8 and i watched him pull his cart onto a nob that protruded into the bunker, pull out a ball retriever and flip his ball out of the bunker from his cart. amazing.

[MiniBlueDragon]

When I play golf I tend to deliberately choose the quietest times I can. I hate playing golf with random strangers because 90% of the random strangers I meet or have been grouped with have been complete idiots in various ways. I'm not one for idle chit chat, I like to concentrate on the task at hand and I just don't like people in general.

If I choose to tee off at 7am on a weekday morning when 95% of the population are getting ready for or at work and the course is pretty quiet then I'm almost always sent out as a single. If I come up on a group generally they will offer me to play through which is always accepted and appreciated. Likewise if I'm having an off day and there's a single behind me who catches up *I* will offer him to play through (and politely decline if offered to group) because he's playing faster than me and I'm holding him up. Hell if a group was playing faster than me I'd wave them all through.

To me it doesn't matter if it's a single ball or a four-ball; if a group is playing faster and there's room ahead, let them play through.

[Klutten3]

Couldn't agree with you more.

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

When I play golf I tend to deliberately choose the quietest times I can. I hate playing golf with random strangers because 90% of the random strangers I meet or have been grouped with have been complete idiots in various ways. I'm not one for idle chit chat, I like to concentrate on the task at hand and I just don't like people in general.

If I choose to tee off at 7am on a weekday morning when 95% of the population are getting ready for or at work and the course is pretty quiet then I'm almost always sent out as a single. If I come up on a group generally they will offer me to play through which is always accepted and appreciated. Likewise if I'm having an off day and there's a single behind me who catches up *I* will offer him to play through (and politely decline if offered to group) because he's playing faster than me and I'm holding him up. Hell if a group was playing faster than me I'd wave them all through.

To me it doesn't matter if it's a single ball or a four-ball; if a group is playing faster and there's room ahead, let them play through.

[Littlebigman]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

According to USGA Etiquette the faster group should be allowed to play through.  It was in 2004 that they clarified this for the single player because prior it was ruled that a single had no standing on the course.  In 2008 they claried that a single is considered a group.

In the situation that you described, the slower group should have waived you through at the appropriate time, especially since there were open holes ahead.

I don't think that you asked for opinions on singles in general, but you got them anyway.  My course only allows singles in non-peak times when play is light.  I did play in Orlando last week as a single (no other pairing available) and wizzed through the front, but then caught a group on 7 that obviously had another group in front of them.  I took my time and after holing out just practiced some short game shots until the fairway was clear.  For the back 9 (with permission and encouragement from the staff) I drove around three groups (there was no way I would expect to play through three groups) and went to 13, finished and then played 10-12.  I prefer playing in a group, but in this case made the best of it knowing that as a single, I am going to run into this.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say.  Sometimes I play my best golf when I get stuck behind a slow twosome or foursome because I take extra time to analyze everything, but in the case where you are behind a foursome with nobody in front of you, very simply, they should let you play through.  I play alone at my local course nearly everyday, whether it is at peak playing times or 7am or whenever, and when someone sees me coming up from behind them they either finish out the hole and wait for me to tee off after they shot, or tee off before them, or even ask me to join with them.  Whatever happens, I am fine with, but under no circumstances should a foursome ever hold up a single if there are open holes, I do not care what course you are playing, its just ridiculous..  the only time the single should stay behind the foursome is if he/she chooses to do so.

If there are a few groups in front of the foursome, just skip ahead of all of them, or hit a bunch of different shots from your second shot, or third shot, or hit 10-15 putts from a tough spot on the green, hit some sand shots.  AKA practice around the green, you aren't bothering the group in front of you and you are getting more than you paid for on the course.  If there is another group behind you as well as in front of you, then I guess you picked the wrong time of day to go golf and you are gonna have to suck it up.

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I hate playing golf with random strangers because 90% of the random strangers I meet or have been grouped with have been complete idiots in various ways. I'm not one for idle chit chat, I like to concentrate on the task at hand and I just don't like people in general.

Originally Posted by Klutten3

Couldn't agree with you more.

I couldn't agree less with both of you.   I'm not arguing or trying to claim you're wrong or anything, but I really enjoy playing as a single and meeting interesting new people on the course.    Over the years I've developed some fun golf partners locally, met people visiting from out of state and country and learned about their home areas, played with people from many different industries and businesses and learned about those as well.   I've payed with some great players and we had some spirited competitive games, and played with some people out to just knock a ball around on a nice day.   I've made some good friends and some good business contacts.     I've probably had less than 5% be anything less than enjoyable and interesting, and to me that is one of the great pleasures in playing golf:  an opportunity to spend some quality time with some interesting and fun people from around the world drawn together by a common love of the game.

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

To me it doesn't matter if it's a single ball or a four-ball; if a group is playing faster and there's room ahead, let them play through.

On this one I couldn't agree with you more!   It just seems so simple.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Clambake

I couldn't agree less with both of you.   I'm not arguing or trying to claim you're wrong or anything, but I really enjoy playing as a single and meeting interesting new people on the course.    Over the years I've developed some fun golf partners locally, met people visiting from out of state and country and learned about their home areas, played with people from many different industries and businesses and learned about those as well.   I've payed with some great players and we had some spirited competitive games, and played with some people out to just knock a ball around on a nice day.   I've made some good friends and some good business contacts.     I've probably had less than 5% be anything less than enjoyable and interesting, and to me that is one of the great pleasures in playing golf:  an opportunity to spend some quality time with some interesting and fun people from around the world drawn together by a common love of the game.

Just bad luck for me then I guess.

I've been paired with people being impatient (complaining because I often take two back-to-back practice swings directly before my full swing) I've been grouped with people who find it neccessary to mock and joke about every shot that isn't perfect, I've been paired with people who don't like the fact that I prefer to wheel a trolley and they carry, I've been paired with people who have really bad etiquette, stand on the tee box in my peripheral view, talk to other people while I'm taking shots, walk on my putting line, give advice when none is wanted and insist on continuing to do so even when told not to etc, I've been paired with people who mock your equipment and people who disagree with whetever your handicap is, even if you come in with a rubbish Stableford score.

I play golf to enjoy the game and unfortunately other people generally take that enjoyment away so I'd rather limit my play to those I know I enjoy playing with and just myself.

Maybe it's a British thing or playing on public courses.

Saying that however I did meet a very friendly guy a couple of weeks ago when checking out a potential club to join. He was friendly, happy, amicable, went out of his way to show me the facilities and said he really hopes I like it and that he'll see me on weekend roll-ups so I do know there are the odd diamonds in the rough out there.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by MrKadash

Interesting we're talking about one of the oldest, most fundamental rules of golf which is let faster players play through, and people (not all) act like the single is the plague.  It's to me, with over 20 years in the business, mystifying.  The idea, however logical or simple, seems to rear it's ugly head throughout the golfing season and is something I'm convinced will never, ever, go away.  That being said, unfortunate as it is, you have to come to expect the reaction if you're a single or in a faster group.  One's sense of entitlement is a tricky thing.

Re oldest, most fundamental rules of golf.

The change is recent.

At one time a single player had no status on the golf course.

[bustaone]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Just bad luck for me then I guess.

I've been paired with people being impatient (complaining because I often take two back-to-back practice swings directly before my full swing) I've been grouped with people who find it neccessary to mock and joke about every shot that isn't perfect, I've been paired with people who don't like the fact that I prefer to wheel a trolley and they carry, I've been paired with people who have really bad etiquette, stand on the tee box in my peripheral view, talk to other people while I'm taking shots, walk on my putting line, give advice when none is wanted and insist on continuing to do so even when told not to etc, I've been paired with people who mock your equipment and people who disagree with whetever your handicap is, even if you come in with a rubbish Stableford score.

I play golf to enjoy the game and unfortunately other people generally take that enjoyment away so I'd rather limit my play to those I know I enjoy playing with and just myself.

Maybe it's a British thing or playing on public courses.

Saying that however I did meet a very friendly guy a couple of weeks ago when checking out a potential club to join. He was friendly, happy, amicable, went out of his way to show me the facilities and said he really hopes I like it and that he'll see me on weekend roll-ups so I do know there are the odd diamonds in the rough out there.

That sucks man.  I'm constantly golfing solo (golf is too expensive for my friends to do more than once a week) and I pretty much invariably find cool people to golf with.  Made some new golf buddies this way.  Worst I've found is the occasional 'teacher' which I just let know that I would not like them to 'diagnose' me.

As for letting single golfers through... Sure, if there is open holes in front of you, but most the time there is a group right in front of the people in front of me so I just whap an extra shot from time to time to slow down.  Sure, in a perfect world you could just run through everything fast and unhindered but if thats what you want find an absurdly unused tee-time on a rarely used course.

[Gresh24]

I am surprised how many, and how often , people play as a single.  I guess golf is almost as much a social event for me.  I enjoy the time with friends.

Reminds me of a time earlier this year when I couldn't find anyone to play with one Saturday.  I really wanted to play to play my new irons.  I told my wife I was going to go on over by myself....she looked at me like I was nuts and didn't think I was serious...