Hoffman breaks putter in anger on 18 at The Players Championship

[newtogolf]

If I'm just watching it on TV, you're right, I'd find it entertaining, and even a bit comforting to know they get as frustrated as I do with the game.  If I was there with my son I'd be a bit disappointed that an adult, no less a pro golfer, was acting in a way that I try to discourage him from acting like.

Originally Posted by iacas

I couldn't care less and actually enjoy it.

The less robotic the players are, the better.

[bunkerputt]

Fines don't make players into more respectable people.  He already waited until the 18th to break it, so that shows some restraint there already.  He was probably frustrated with it long before, but didn't want to putt out the round with his driver like he did last time.  I remember seeing John Daly tee off and then just casually walked over to the edge of the tee box and tossed his driver out into the water.  That was pretty dang funny to watch.  As long as they aren't disrespecting other players like spitting on the green, let him break his putter.  Did anyone complain about missing fines when Woody Austin broke his putter over his head?

[B of H]

Personally, in some ways I kind of like seeing that type of fire and emotion in a player.  These guys are playing for lots of money and it's not a friendly saturday morning round at a local club.  This isn't 1920 either.   kids watching need to know that this type of behavior is not ideal and they'd be better served by not resorting to it but if it's acceptable in baseball or basketball or football why isn't it acceptable in golf?

i'd rather see someone get pissed and use that motivation in a positive manner than some dead pan happy go lucky type who doesn't seem to give a crap how he performs.  Sure it's not ideal to break a club but at least you know that his performance pissed him off and he wants to do better/ expects more from himself.

if golfers are athletes now then I expect them to show this type of emotion at times, it's up to them to find a way to channel that emotion into something positive but sometimes it gets the best of them.  that is all part of the increased drama of todays pga tour IMO.  The whole 'gentlemens game' thing went out the window when the usga/r+a decided that allowing giant titanium clubheads, graphite shafts, long/belly putters etc...was acceptable.  it's an ugly battle out there now and not as much of an art form as before.  therefore I don't think breaking clubs or throwing clubs is as big a deal as before...call me crazy.  :)

(yes, I know that breaking clubs/temper tantrums is nothing new but I just feel like it is more acceptable now than in previous generations)

[NEOHMark]

I s'pose the only reason Tiger should enter the discussion is perhaps the role he played in making tantrums and throwing clubs - while playing public tourneys - more-or-less accepted behavior.  He's surely not the first PGA player to throw tantrums and clubs, but he is the first GREAT player I can recall ever doing so.  Nicklaus, Palmer, Watson, Faldo, et al were always much more subdued in their self-critique and anger.  Tiger was the first to bring it out in the open and have people pretty much look the other way because of his greatness.  I think it's fair to openly question whether or not that has allowed this kind of behavior to creep into the PGA overall?

Regarding Hoffman - he should definitely be fined.  Anger is anger, and it's a display of poor sportsmanship.  In other games they have rules to keep this under control, but many times the administrators of the respective sports go over and above game time penalties and impose fines and suspensions beyond that.  With golf, there's nothing in the rule book against such behavior so the PGA has no choice but to impose some sort of sanction outside the field of play.

Some people love it though.  NASCAR fans have always loved a good ol' boys brawl.  The NBA has never been more popular with players so full of themselves with entitlement attitudes, and trash-talk being an accepted part of the game.  I suppose it was inevitable for some of that to creep into the pro golf game.  JMHO

[iacas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

If I'm just watching it on TV, you're right, I'd find it entertaining, and even a bit comforting to know they get as frustrated as I do with the game.  If I was there with my son I'd be a bit disappointed that an adult, no less a pro golfer, was acting in a way that I try to discourage him from acting like.

I would simply counter that if you're doing your job as a parent, the kid is likely to think as you did - "man, what an idiot" when he would see something like that in person. Y'know?

There's a lot more things worse in the world than seeing a guy take out some anger on a putter. I'm not saying it's great to watch, but at least it's real and on the scale of "bad" it ranks pretty low.

[NEOHMark]

Originally Posted by iacas

There's a lot more things worse in the world than seeing a guy take out some anger on a putter. I'm not saying it's great to watch, but at least it's real and on the scale of "bad" it ranks pretty low.

No doubt.  But I do find it interesting the same universe of folks (this forum) can question whether or not wearing jeans on the golf course is beneath the game's standards and also discuss whether or not breaking a putter in anger during a public PGA tournament makes the players more interesting and less robotic.

[B of H]

moral of the story: golf is a struggle and some people handle adversity better than others.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by iacas

I would simply counter that if you're doing your job as a parent, the kid is likely to think as you did - "man, what an idiot" when he would see something like that in person. Y'know?

There's a lot more things worse in the world than seeing a guy take out some anger on a putter. I'm not saying it's great to watch, but at least it's real and on the scale of "bad" it ranks pretty low.

What I've read so far from most here is really disturbing. The notion that anyone would accept this as proper behavior on the golf course is, to say the least, disheartening. But on the other hand, it is refreshing to see a different perspective from those I've experienced on other sites. Let's just say that this topic of anger on the golf course usually revolves around one player in particular. But since so many here seem to be okay with this type of behavior I'm guessing we won't hear much about that since it's okay for the likes of Hoffman to actually break his club.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

What I've read so far from most here is really disturbing. The notion that anyone would accept this as proper behavior on the golf course is, to say the least, disheartening. But on the other hand, it is refreshing to see a different perspective from those I've experienced on other sites. Let's just say that this topic of anger on the golf course usually revolves around one player in particular. But since so many here seem to be okay with this type of behavior I'm guessing we won't hear much about that since it's okay for the likes of Hoffman to actually break his club.

It's sport. It's entertainment. I want to see human emotion, not robots.

Do not twist words or put words into people's mouths. Nobody has said it is "proper behavior"?

And seriously, knock it off with the constant TW talk. Why do you keep bringing him up? You seem to mention him far more frequently than anyone else.

The on-ice officials are giving you a warning. Continue and you'll find yourself in the penalty box. And "continue" includes responding to this post at all.

[shades9323]

Did anybody else see Lucas Glover spit on the green yesterday?  It was either on 13 or 17, I can't remember.  It happens a lot and isn't a big deal.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

As long as they aren't disrespecting other players like spitting on the green, let him break his putter.

[ThominOH]

I have no problem with Hoff being fined..  Suspension tho?  Naaa.. Rory on the other hand should face a stiffer penalty.. but suspension won't do anything.. If you were to be suspended for 3 tourneys.. I would sign up for the next 3 in a row.. knowing full well I have no real intention of wanting to be in them anyways.. Defeats the whole purpose of suspension.. Keep it as fines..

[henniebogan1966]

Well guys I guess I'll not respond to this anymore. Apparently breaking a club in anger on national tv is not a big deal.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Well guys I guess I'll not respond to this anymore. Apparently breaking a club in anger on national tv is not a big deal.

How did you conclude that? Most of the posts here say he should and will be fined. Your powers of deduction are underwhelming.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

How did you conclude that? Most of the posts here say he should and will be fined. Your powers of deduction are underwhelming.

Most of the responses seem to indicate that while a fine is appropriate, that the action itself is not a big deal.

[NEOHMark]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Most of the responses seem to indicate that while a fine is appropriate, that the action itself is not a big deal.

I certainly think it's beneath the grace and dignity of the game.  It's beneath the grace and dignity of any game.  I don't like it when a baseball player snaps his bat over his knee after striking out.  I certainly don't like it when a basketball player slams the ball down in anger (usually resulting in a technical if he let's it bounce freely up toward the rafters).

But none of those things are 'big deals'.  Think about the perspective.  A big deal is a physical altercation between players.  A big deal is taunting another player.  A big deal is intentionally trying to hurt another player.  A big deal is trying to get away with cheating.

Here's a question for you hennie.  Which, in your opinion, is worse - a player snapping his putter in half because he's angry at himself, or a player who subtly (or not so subtly) is trying to play mind games on the 18th tee shot of a tied match by doing a little 'talking' to his opponent?

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

I certainly think it's beneath the grace and dignity of the game.  It's beneath the grace and dignity of any game.  I don't like it when a baseball player snaps his bat over his knee after striking out.  I certainly don't like it when a basketball player slams the ball down in anger (usually resulting in a technical if he let's it bounce freely up toward the rafters).

But none of those things are 'big deals'.  Think about the perspective.  A big deal is a physical altercation between players.  A big deal is taunting another player.  A big deal is intentionally trying to hurt another player.  A big deal is trying to get away with cheating.

Here's a question for you hennie.  Which, in your opinion, is worse - a player snapping his putter in half because he's angry at himself, or a player who subtly (or not so subtly) is trying to play mind games on the 18th tee shot of a tied match by doing a little 'talking' to his opponent?

Gamesmanship has long been an accepted practice within the game and those who are strong enough mentally, ignore such advances from other players. Those who are not, fail. I think players who spit on greens, or in cups, break or throw clubs, or cuss out loud are far worse than those using gamesmanship. So breaking a club in anger is unacceptable to me at any level, much less at the professional level.  Those guys know better. It should be met with an immediate fine and probation.

[NEOHMark]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Gamesmanship has long been an accepted practice within the game and those who are strong enough mentally, ignore such advances from other players. Those who are not, fail. I think players who spit on greens, or in cups, break or throw clubs, or cuss out loud are far worse than those using gamesmanship. So breaking a club in anger is unacceptable to me at any level, much less at the professional level.  Those guys know better. It should be met with an immediate fine and probation.

Fair enough, but how weak does that make the player TRYING to sucker his opponent into failing - at the last resort of gamesmanship?  It doesn't speak well of that player either, IMHO.  Speak with your play, or don't speak at all, I say.

FWIW, in the two sports I officiate (at the HS and small college level) - baseball and basketball - there are specific rules against this sort of gamesmanship (though you'd never know it at the pro level, admittedly).  A player who curses at himself in anger, or displays an outburst of anger at himself, is largely ignored..... while the player who intentionally tries to interfere with the performance of another player - via such 'gamesmanship' - is either warned, ejected, gets a technical foul, or possibly all of the above.  Interesting that in a 'gentleman's game like golf, there's this notion that it's OK to F*** with your opponent, and it's up to him to deal with it.

Just food for thought.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

Fair enough, but how weak does that make the player TRYING to sucker his opponent into failing - at the last resort of gamesmanship?  It doesn't speak well of that player either, IMHO.  Speak with your play, or don't speak at all, I say.

FWIW, in the two sports I officiate (at the HS and small college level) - baseball and basketball - there are specific rules against this sort of gamesmanship (though you'd never know it at the pro level, admittedly).  A player who curses at himself in anger, or displays an outburst of anger at himself, is largely ignored..... while the player who intentionally tries to interfere with the performance of another player - via such 'gamesmanship' - is either warned, ejected, gets a technical foul, or possibly all of the above.  Interesting that in a 'gentleman's game like golf, there's this notion that it's OK to F*** with your opponent, and it's up to him to deal with it.

Just food for thought.

But in golf there are lots of ways to show gamesmanship without it being overtly rude or confrontational. For example, I'm a huge fan of Ben Hogan. But he was known for loving to use the words "You're still away" with his opponents. Subtle, yet kinda in your face without seeming to be rude. I mean if you're away you're away right? Is it wrong of him to say that? Whose to say? Yet it's one of those things that can get in your head if you let it. Or if an opponent hits a tee shot and says he missed that little, you happen to have looked to see what club he was hitting, you change clubs, and hit the wrong club resulting in a missed green or hitting into a hazard. Is it his fault for using that on you or your fault for not playing your own game? Matter of opinion as to which it is. I happen to believe you need to play your own game and laugh off the attempts of your opponent to get into your head. At the end of the day, we as individuals hit the shots for ourselves and not our opponents. I get what you're saying and in some ways I would agree. But I also understand and accept that it's an accepted part of the game.