My Swing (bunkerputt)

[Stretch]

Arms straight big fella! Push the #1 pressure point down the line towards the target as you pass through impact.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Arms straight big fella! Push the #1 pressure point down the line towards the target as you pass through impact.

Does this hold the clubface open?  Why am I flipping it a little?  It looks like I might still have that motor pattern where I fall onto my front leg and just rotate from that point.  Does it look like I got enough hip slide?

[bunkerputt]

Well, I guess if you guys aren't going to offer me any more advice, I'm just going to start clearing my hips and releasing the club more .

Just from what I see, I would say get my arms higher, more lift, feeling the PA#3 against my upper pec instead of lower.  Weight a little more left and down, more left knee toward the target, and more secondary axis tilt.  I think the reason I can't maintain pressure points with high arms is because I fear coming extremely over-the-top from that position.  This is because I still rotate too much and don't have enough secondary axis tilt to make up the difference.  So the flat arms are a compensation to keep the club on the right path when not enough tilt is present.  I think getting the arms higher, hips forward with the head back more would get the club coming from the inside from that relatively high arm position and allow me to maintain the pressure points.

I'm also struggling with finding a balance between the flexed and loaded right leg at the top, and the straighter and looser right leg allowing a better turn.  I know I can swing faster with the legs flexed.  I also know it's not necessarily better.  I like the way Charlie Wi's legs look, nice and loaded, but still allowing a full turn.

[bplewis24]

I don't know what half the terms you guys use even mean, so I'm just following along :)

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I don't know what half the terms you guys use even mean, so I'm just following along :)

I said PA #3, but I meant #4.  They're still confusing to me as well.  Here's a helpful blog post:

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/05/understanding-basics-of-tgm-part-v.html

"Secondary axis tilt" is just a fancy term that is code language for "get the hips forward with the head back on the downswing so your spine tilts to the right"

Most of the terms come from Homer Kelly's book "The Golfing Machine".

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

"Secondary axis tilt" is just a fancy term that is code language for "get the hips forward with the head back on the downswing so your spine tilts to the right"

Happy to report that I've been having somewhat of a breakthrough with this concept.  I had been focusing on the hips forward/hip rotation, etc, for a while.  I thought I was doing well and then all of a sudden on Friday I got a bad case of the shanks.  It was my first round I was shooting for a score to post to my handicap in 3 weeks or so.  Club face was wide open at impact.  I couldn't figure it out.  Shot a 95.  The only chance I had to hit the green in regulation was to be on a very long par 4 or a par 5, because with my long irons or woods I was fine.  Anything under 150 yards would be almost a 90* shank.  I had to start hitting abbreviated, knockdown shots just to advance the ball.

So I went to a local executive course where I can play for free to practice.  The local college player there who acts as Marshall lets me play for free and he wanted to play a few holes with me.  Between some things he mentioned to me and some things I remembered reading in my swing thread last year, it came to me that I wasn't rotating the club through impact because I was simply moving my entire upper body forward instead of just my hips, and wasn't rotating them at all.  It's hard to explain how I came to this epiphany, but it wasn't anything the Marshall told me directly, it was a couple things he suggested in harmony with my practice over the past year and research.

Sorry to thread hijack, but I don't feel like posting this in my thread until I decide to post some video so people can judge if there is any actual progress or if I'm just talking out of my arse.

Brandon

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Happy to report that I've been having somewhat of a breakthrough with this concept.  I had been focusing on the hips forward/hip rotation, etc, for a while.  I thought I was doing well and then all of a sudden on Friday I got a bad case of the shanks.  It was my first round I was shooting for a score to post to my handicap in 3 weeks or so.  Club face was wide open at impact.  I couldn't figure it out.  Shot a 95.  The only chance I had to hit the green in regulation was to be on a very long par 4 or a par 5, because with my long irons or woods I was fine.  Anything under 150 yards would be almost a 90* shank.  I had to start hitting abbreviated, knockdown shots just to advance the ball.

So I went to a local executive course where I can play for free to practice.  The local college player there who acts as Marshall lets me play for free and he wanted to play a few holes with me.  Between some things he mentioned to me and some things I remembered reading in my swing thread last year, it came to me that I wasn't rotating the club through impact because I was simply moving my entire upper body forward instead of just my hips, and wasn't rotating them at all.  It's hard to explain how I came to this epiphany, but it wasn't anything the Marshall told me directly, it was a couple things he suggested in harmony with my practice over the past year and research.

Sorry to thread hijack, but I don't feel like posting this in my thread until I decide to post some video so people can judge if there is any actual progress or if I'm just talking out of my arse.

Brandon

How ironic that this post and yours came to my inbox at roughly same time.  Don't "roll", there are likely other problems you would need to address instead:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/55291/release-the-club#post_676303

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Well, I guess if you guys aren't going to offer me any more advice, I'm just going to start clearing my hips and releasing the club more .

Sorry. Been really busy this week!

What I see (and feel, because I do much the same thing) is you "slinging it around the corner" just after impact. Handle falls back, right wrist/forearm rolls over left, path goes left. In my opinion (which is probably worth about what you're paying for it), this is caused by your pivot stalling around impact, which is in turn caused by a lack of extension from P6 to P8.

In order to keep everything turning through the hit, you need to "stand up" more -- straightening the left and right legs and feeling the left side of your torso really stretching out and going to the sky.

Er, so what does that have to do with my original advice? Well, for me, the best way to get the lower body cooperating in coming out of flexion has been to focus on getting the arms straight. If they're really straight going through the ball into the follow through, your legs are damn sure going to be pushing off the ground, because your subconscious knows that otherwise you're going to bury the club a foot deep in the turf. And, again for me, a good way to work on keeping the arms from bending too early is to focus on really driving the heel of the right hand (at the point where it sits on top of the left) down to the bottom of the arc and out along the target line. Good drill is tees under the pits, half-ish swings -- focus on arms straight and right leg straight -- and then, as James H would say, just smash it.

[bunkerputt]

Thanks Stretch.  That actually makes a ton of sense to me and believe it or not, I have no follow-on questions.  I intuited the same kind of thing, just from watching in side-by-side with Rob Rock and yesterday I was working on really extending the hips forward a lot.  When I just focus on that, I have to keep the arms straight, otherwise I'll catch it thin.  My swing keys right now are:

Backswing:

- Arms higher ("bite the knuckle" is what I say to myself)

Transition:

- Feel left shoulder and left knee get a little lower to the ground.  Get left knee moving toward target

Downswing:

- Hips forward, feel like I'm tilting away from the target on the downswing, then get the hips forward and then get them forward followed by getting them forward

In reality, I've really been focusing more on the hip extension part, because subconsciously I'm just moving my arms on the plane required by my pivot to produce straight shots.  The problems are related, but I think it's my hip extension or lack of it that is the root of the faults.

Again, thanks for everything.  Well, maybe except for posting a picture of me mid-swing along with Rob Rock.  It makes me a little self-conscious .  He's a model for us all in both hair and swing.

[bunkerputt]

I worked on these swing keys at home, maybe 30 practice swings or so.  Laughable as far as actually ingraining a motion, but almost enough to be able to do them consciously with a lot of concentration.  I decided to forego the range and head straight out for 9-holes.  Bad idea.  Even though I shot worse than I would have as a 30 handicapper, I'm still proud of staying committed to the right motion even if I miss the ball completely .  And I did quite a bit, if you consider cold-tops and shanks missing it.  It was a little embarassing, but I had my chin up when I was done.  After all, I really didn't expect a change to work so quickly without giving it some time.  I think I've got it, the concept and my work cut out for me, and I'm looking forward to posting a video in a couple of weeks.

[bplewis24]

That was me last week.  Been at the range every day this week (only 40-60 balls at a time), worked pretty diligently I think, and hoping for a good 9 today and 18 on the weekend.

Brandon

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Just from what I see, I would say get my arms higher, more lift, feeling the PA#3 against my upper pec instead of lower.  Weight a little more left and down, more left knee toward the target, and more secondary axis tilt.  I think the reason I can't maintain pressure points with high arms is because I fear coming extremely over-the-top from that position.  This is because I still rotate too much and don't have enough secondary axis tilt to make up the difference.  So the flat arms are a compensation to keep the club on the right path when not enough tilt is present.  I think getting the arms higher, hips forward with the head back more would get the club coming from the inside from that relatively high arm position and allow me to maintain the pressure points.

I don't often quote myself, but when I do, I do it while thinking about this guy:

I'm not sure if this is a complete coincidence, but working on those things I mentioned I saw in my swing has me hitting the ball better than I ever have in my life.  I'm basically thinking more now about where I want the club to be when I'm in my follow through as opposed to actually working to hit the ball.  As long as I maintain my balance, stay in my posture, and just do the motion I've been doing to control the face, the ball starts on exactly the same line and trajectory every damn time.  Swing thoughts are:

Weight centered

Arms high

Load the right leg some on the backswing

Tilt left on the backswing

Pressure left on transition (left knee to target)

Tilt right on the downswing

[Stretch]

I don't often compress it perfectly, but when I do -- as my mate Sean observed this week after absolutely scorching a 3 wood approach -- I can feel it in the depth of my ****in' nutsack.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I don't often compress it perfectly, but when I do -- as my mate Sean observed this week after absolutely scorching a 3 wood approach -- I can feel it in the depth of my ****in' nutsack.

Nutsack depth compression.  That needs to be the theme of the next Taylormade line.

I don't always smoke it.  But when I do, I do it... in the tool shed out back.

[Taylor Johnson]

Wow. This is awesome stuff. Great to see your progress throughout this thread, bunkerputt.

It gives me hope when you talked about your previous driver carry being at 270, now over 306 I think you said. You mentioned that with your build, you look back on 270 as lower than it should be. I can definitely relate to that. I'm almost 6' 2", about 185 and very flexible and athletic and I know I should be swinging my clubs faster and hitting them further than I do. This thread gives me a lot of hope.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Taylor Johnson

Wow. This is awesome stuff. Great to see your progress throughout this thread, bunkerputt.

It gives me hope when you talked about your previous driver carry being at 270, now over 306 I think you said. You mentioned that with your build, you look back on 270 as lower than it should be. I can definitely relate to that. I'm almost 6' 2", about 185 and very flexible and athletic and I know I should be swinging my clubs faster and hitting them further than I do. This thread gives me a lot of hope.

Cool.  Bear in mind I don't claim that as my average carry.  It was a nice month or so where I felt really good and comfortable in-between mechanical changes and I was on a launch monitor so I didn't care where the ball was going and I could swing as hard as I wanted.  Clubhead speed was 120+.  In real life on the course or range, I generally hit 110-115.  My arms were on the right plane at that time, but my shoulders were a little too flat.  I changed my turn a little, which required that I lower my arm plane some relative to the shoulders to keep them at the same spot in space relative to the ground.  I overdid it and went from a very good amount of carry to 255 average carry with way too much overdraw.  I also stopped throwing the club somewhat and started driving it more which is great with the irons, but leads to a little distance loss and push-fading with the driver.

With the driver my goal is to hit it as far out on the fairway as I possibly can.  This means I can't swing as hard as I possibly can, or I run the risk of sacrificing contact quality.  Tall guys need to swing on a steeper plane to deliver the right contact to the ball.  I'm currently averaging 275 carry by raising my arm plane just a bit so it's more in line with my shoulders at the top and working on the other things I mentioned.  At 35, I'm satisfied with that distance.  Once I get comfortable in a few months, I'll start training for speed again.  Contact quality is a little hit or miss right now if I swing fast because I have some posture maintenance issues with the new hip action.  If I want a little more distance, I just tee it up a bit higher and forward and try to lengthen my backswing a little with a smoother transition.

These are some good driver tips for tall guys, IMO.  Alvaro is the same height, but sleighter in build as me and much quicker and smoother.  He emphasizes the importance of not coming too far from the inside (underneath he calls it), transition coordination, and throwing:

[Taylor Johnson]

Thanks for the tips & the video. Seems like good stuff.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Once I get comfortable in a few months, I'll start training for speed again.

What is your method for speed training? I hit inside a bay a lot at GolfTec and when I try to swing my driver "as hard as I can" I get 94-96mph... My teacher has me whipping the grip end of the club, making the "whoosh" after the ball, but as much as I've been doing that, I don't seem to be increasing clubhead speed.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Taylor Johnson

Thanks for the tips & the video. Seems like good stuff.

What is your method for speed training? I hit inside a bay a lot at GolfTec and when I try to swing my driver "as hard as I can" I get 94-96mph... My teacher has me whipping the grip end of the club, making the "whoosh" after the ball, but as much as I've been doing that, I don't seem to be increasing clubhead speed.

You have to train mechanics before you train speed.  Then make those mechanics speedy.  When I swing "as hard as I can" now, it really just feels like I'm getting more width on my backswing and compressing into the ground more on my downswing so I can use the ground more.  I've gone through quite a few periods where I had power leaks in my swing and I remember having to swing hard just to break 100 mph.  Most of the time 100mph feels like a warm-up swing.  My priorities in golf training in this order are:

1.  Stay healthy.  Keep ligaments and tendons healthy and strong, keep muscles flexible and not too bulky.  You can't play at all if you don't do this.

2.  Stay stable.  Keep the core and legs strong.  Don't be moving around all over the place.  Work on balance, body awareness, and core stability.

3.  Get strong and fast.  Better impact and more distance this way.

The first makes golf possible, the second makes good golf possible, the third makes it really fun.  We tend to jump ahead as guys and go straight for #3 because it's easier and flashier.

So that is just to put speed training in it's proper place.  When I train for speed I make sure my body is really warm and loose and the muscles can take it.  You don't want to pull something.  Then just take the motions, start the motion slow, then explode.  Always start slow, then explode.  For example, say you want to do medicine ball work (The heavier the better), take it to the top of your "backswing", then try to throw it down the target line.  Start down slow, then use your legs, arms and shoulders to really explode.  Don't do a lot of reps and give yourself time to rest in between reps.  You aren't training for endurance.  Those are different types of muscle fibers.  Just get warm and do a few reps every other day or so.

Forget about that right now though, because if you are healthy, 6'2" and reasonably athletic, a hard swing should be 110mph+ with good mechanics.  It sounds like you have some power leaks you need to address.  I'd also recommend one of these:

If you configure it properly for height and club length, it's pretty accurate.  At worst, it scales linearly with clubhead speed so you can know whether changes are working or not.  This is what I use and it has helped tremendously.  It was pretty eye opening the first time I used it because I would try as hard as I could and couldn't get it nearly as high with half the effort of a good swing.  I think the highest I could get it the first time I used it several years ago was 109.  Once I started getting decent mechanics and a solid pivot in place, I got it up to 134, with 128 being a typical "all out" swing.  Nowadays I get it somewhere around 110 on a typical smooth drive.  I can crank it harder, but why bother when you have 18 holes to play.