Sand on/off the green: 2 stroke penalty for Rory

[joekelly]

Rory took the penalty for brushing sand which lay on the fringe, as did his  ball. Would he also be penalized if he brushed the sand which lay on the green, ball off?  What about his ball off, but big ball mark on green  in line of putt: penalty if ball mark on green fixed?

[sacm3bill]

Unless there's another rule about this scenario that I'm not aware of, I'd go by the definition of loose impediment:

"Sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the putting green , but not elsewhere."

So I don't think it matters where the ball is, only where the sand is. I think there has been some confusion about this rule because IIRC the announcers were saying "If he'd been on the green he wouldn't have been penalized", implying that if his *ball* had been on the green he wouldn't have been penalized for brushing sand that was off the green - however that's not true.  I think what they meant was if he'd been on the green then any sand he brushed would've probably been on the green, and therefore the brushing would've been legal - but I don't think they were clear about that.

[LuciusWooding]

Yeah, he was on the fringe and decided to putt. He cleared off his line, but he was only allowed to do it on the putting surface, and continued  to clean sand from the fringe itself. As far as the rules are concerned, the fringe is considered part of the fairway, not the green.

Btw, Luke Donald did him a huge favor calling him on it; everyone seems to think he was a dick to do so, but he could have let him get DQed if he didn't call the penalty on himself. Sportscenter seemed to think Luke was supposed to ignore it and keep playing, but Luke probably saved Rory a few hundred thousand dollars, a lot of ranking points, and a great deal of embarrassment. If Rory was anything but grateful, he was off base. Unlike other sports, a viewer can call in a rules infringement and Rory couldn't change his score after he signed for it, even if he accepted the penalty.

[luu5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joekelly

Rory took the penalty for brushing sand which lay on the fringe, as did his  ball. Would he also be penalized if he brushed the sand which lay on the green, ball off?  What about his ball off, but big ball mark on green  in line of putt: penalty if ball mark on green fixed?

Rule 16-1c

Quote:

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player’s ball lies on the putting green.

So yes, you can fix ball mark on green with your ball off green.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

As far as the rules are concerned, the fringe is considered part of the fairway, not the green.

You are right but to be very precise, fringe is concidered part of 'through the green'. There is no such concept as 'fairway' in the Rules.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

You are right but to be very precise, fringe is concidered part of 'through the green'. There is no such concept as 'fairway' in the Rules.

Although 'fairway' is not a defined term, the concept certainly exists in the Rules viz “Closely mown area” means any area of the course , including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Although 'fairway' is not a defined term, the concept certainly exists in the Rules viz  “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less

Yup, 'fairway height' is a concept, 'fairway' is not.

I know, splitting hair.... sorry

[Rulesman]

Some would say you have to be a pedant to understand the rules