shoulder alignment causing push shot?

[carpediem4300]

Hi Guys,

I suffer from a big push shot, to push slice, to straight slice, to straight pull (All with driver)

one of the things i have noticed about my swing is in my setup and how i set-up,....but i just want to see if my logic perhaps ring true,..

I line the clubface at my target, my feet.hips/kness are paralell to this, i take my left hand grip and line up to the ball,......I then reach my right hand in and take the grip and what ive noticed is this pushes my shoulders open and gets my right forearm slightly higher than my left,....after doing a few very slow takeaways i noticed the driver head started outwards rather than straight or slightly in,...

So my question is

Could this opening of the shoulders be the root evil of my ailments off the tee that is then compounded by further attempts in the swing to square thing up and un-necessary compensations?

I hit my irons really nice, and my conclusion is my shoulders arent open when setting up with an iron.

Apologies for no swing video, its more a train of thought im working with here

[EverythingGolf]

It sounds like you are mostly coming over the top. You start your downswing by turning your shoulders.

This is a good video to see how to come from the inside.

[carpediem4300]

thanks for the reply,

MY pro has been telling me that coming from the inside with an open clubface is causing these shots, which can make sense,....but i dont think its as simple as that

Ive always had a flat swing and always thought it lead to an over the top swing tocompensate for early errors,..

its looking like i might be right and getting the alignment and swingpath wrong to begin with is completely negating wether i swing flat or upright cus its always gunna tend to be OTT

[EverythingGolf]

No, coming from the inside will cause the opposite a draw or hook. But you can hit a push fade if the club is open with a square swing path. A strsight slice is when the face is square and the path is out to in. look at the ball flight law chart below.

[carpediem4300]

awesome, thanks for helping me clear this up in my head,.

will be trying better alignment with my shoulders and slowing the transition down somewhat at the range later

cheers again

[QuazerSKITS]

I had the same problem. Shoulders open at address and subsequently they where way open at impact as where my hips resulting in alot push cuts, pull cuts, pull hooks... variety due to the alignment issue.

Basically try to hit the ball with your shoulders and hips closed.

A good video i was recommended was the one below.

[carpediem4300]

thanks for the input, afraid stack and tilt doesnt do it for me after trying for many months and posting alot about it on here actually,

Lowest score i could shoot was mid 90's

switched back to a more conventional swing and now shoot mid-low 80's

the driver problem plagued me with both swing types however, and continues to do so

[QuazerSKITS]

To be honest i dont really follow and abide by the stack & tilt philosphy either but i think there is alot of valuable information that can be extracted from it.

Regardless if you are stack & tilt or not i think that the shoulder alignment issue you mentioned should still be looked in to. If you could video your swing im sure there are alot of people on here who have a much broader knowledge of the golf swing than me who would be happy to give you some tips/advice.

[carpediem4300]

yeah i know what u mean, alot of S&T; stuff has stayed in my swing like getting the weight forward,...

Video would be ideal but i cant get it uploaded as dont own a PC, just mobile phone and works pc which wont let me upload stuff

to describe it in simple terms.

1) I address the ball with square feet, square hips, square shoulders

2) I hold my driver out in front of me and take my grip and im still all square,

3) i place the clubhead behind the ball which is usually an inch or so inside my left heel, and BOOM, my shoulders are now open and my hips a tad open also

4) I can only conclude this buggers me from the outside with an outside the line backswing,....

[anthony]

I had a similar problem as you and am working at solving it. Basically, I thought my clubface was square to the target, but it was actually open to the target by quite a bit when I finally got set up and started the backswing.

What I do now is pretty much just what you do, but instead of grip with what you think is square to the target, grip it 15 degrees or so shut to what you currently are (not totally sure on the degree value, experiment).

Then, setup with slightly closed hips and shoulders and swing through. I'm getting pretty consistent draws off the tee now.

[carpediem4300]

thanks anthony

managed to book myself a lesson on video tonight at the range, ill explain to the pro before we start "what i think i ahve traced the issue back to"

and go from there,

I can only presume that my driver setup forces a pull/push/slice,....and that swing pattern transfers to my irons which is why i only pull them instead of push/slice them aswell

time will tell after tonight i guess

[anthony]

I should add that my miss would be a push or a push slice before I strengthened my grip. If you're pull slicing or hitting a straight slice, you're coming over the top more than likely.

Also, watch your backswing length. I was getting way out of shape with my driver because of my backswing . I taped my self and noticed when I was getting past a certain point in the backswing I came out of my posture, moved my head away from the ball, etc. Now, I stop at what feels like 60% of what I was doing previously.

[carpediem4300]

cheers anthony,...

I hit a myriad of shot,...predominantly push/push slice

i actually noticed lengthening my backswing helped somewhat,....but i think this jsut gets my shoulders turning better,...which would tie up with the "open shoulders at address" thing ive concluded to at the minute,...obviously the longer backswing aids me getting them from open to fuller turned,.....i imagine with square shoulders a shorter backswing would be required to gain the same effect of fully turned shoulders

I used to lift out of my posture when i had a seriously flat golf swing in an attempt to get into a decent position at the top,.....i swing much more upright now which has eliminated that part of my problem

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

It sounds like you are mostly coming over the top. You start your downswing by turning your shoulders.

This is a good video to see how to come from the inside.

Actually you should start the downswing with a slight forward weight shift.  I dont know of any teaching pro who says you should start the downswing with the shoulders.

[Nole77]

Actually I think he meant to say the poster is probably starting with his shoulders as the video does not say to do that.

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Actually you should start the downswing with a slight forward weight shift.  I dont know of any teaching pro who says you should start the downswing with the shoulders.

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by Nole77

Actually I think he meant to say the poster is probably starting with his shoulders as the video does not say to do that.

Yes I was talking about Carp. must be starting the down swing with the shoulders. Sorry for the miss communication.

[Old1964]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

Hi Guys,

I suffer from a big push shot, to push slice, to straight slice, to straight pull (All with driver)

one of the things i have noticed about my swing is in my setup and how i set-up,....but i just want to see if my logic perhaps ring true,..

I line the clubface at my target, my feet.hips/kness are paralell to this, i take my left hand grip and line up to the ball,......I then reach my right hand in and take the grip and what ive noticed is this pushes my shoulders open and gets my right forearm slightly higher than my left,....after doing a few very slow takeaways i noticed the driver head started outwards rather than straight or slightly in,...

So my question is

Could this opening of the shoulders be the root evil of my ailments off the tee that is then compounded by further attempts in the swing to square thing up and un-necessary compensations?

I hit my irons really nice, and my conclusion is my shoulders arent open when setting up with an iron.

Apologies for no swing video, its more a train of thought im working with here

Sounds a lot like me a couple of years ago - turns out it was my alignment! My upper body was too vertical - not tilted away from the target enough. Now, I keep my head centered between my feet - push my hips forward - and shazam! I can bring the club to the ball from the inside. Without the slight tilt away from the target with my upper body, my right side would be too high and my shoulders would be open on the long shafted clubs. That's my story.

[fadenotslice]

I have the same issue with slices and pushes. Finally got a lesson and the instructor pointed out my open shoulders. It causes you to come across the ball thus causing the slice. We worked on square shoulders and forearms and it really helped.