Cleveland Browns

[Beachcomber]

Holy hell.  Is Weeden that freaking bad?  Do we really have to watch this team for another 15 games?

Also, why would they rush Richardson 19 times when he is just coming back from knee surgery?  Couldn't they see that he was ineffective?  Let him rest... Put another scrub in there to run against 8 men stacked on the LoS.

[Ricepr]

Good thing we didn't trade up for RG III.......

aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrghhhh. It begins again

[VealCutlet]

Well now that Art Modell is dead maybe the Browns will get some better luck. Didn't happen vs. The Eagles...maybe next week.

[Spyder]

I was highly disappointed watching that game and our Defense alone won that game for us (quickly followed by the Offense giving it back to Philly). But , I am not going to vest that much concern right away. Not all rookie QBs are going to come out blazing like Robert Griffith III. There is that slight chance that Weeden will turn out just fine and come out gunning vs Cinci this Sunday.

Richardson having nearly 20 carries was not a problem. He's 100% healthy per reports, so he should run 100%.

Now to the Ugly....

The up-the-middle run plays over and over and over are what made Richardson ineffective. Childress and Shurmur showed a pathetic display of play calling and were absolutely clueless. Greg Little should have been cut and should never have been drafted by Heckert to begin with. We're trying to make a third-rate RB become a #2 WR, which does not happen on planet Earth. Richardson's strength comes from sweeps through the 3 or 4 hole and he was given I think, 2 of these. One of which resulted in a 9 yard carry, the other being 5 yards (averaging 7 yards per carry with these 2 runs which he excels at).

Our O-Line gave Weeden enough time to make up his mind and take his time, but he can't use every second of that time to eye up his receiver on his way down the field; practically advertising where the ball is going from the snap.

Just a terrible display of Play Calling, Coaching, Offensive non-Coordination and a total failure on behalf of the Offense as a whole. The Defense should be treated out to dinner by the Offense 5 days in a row leading up to Saturday for their outstanding play.

PS: I cannot wait until October 16th when Haslem cleans house and this time it is going to mean something with a new owner who actually cares. It's unfortunate to rebuild the organization yet again, but this time we have an owner who is going to be the face of the organization and actually care about results rather than concessions and profits off alcohol, because all of us Browns fans need a damn case of Bud to get through 4 quarters of this joke.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Spyder

I was highly disappointed watching that game and our Defense alone won that game for us (quickly followed by the Offense giving it back to Philly). But, I am not going to vest that much concern right away. Not all rookie QBs are going to come out blazing like Robert Griffith III. There is that slight chance that Weeden will turn out just fine and come out gunning vs Cinci this Sunday.

Richardson having nearly 20 carries was not a problem. He's 100% healthy per reports, so he should run 100%.

Now to the Ugly....

The up-the-middle run plays over and over and over are what made Richardson ineffective. Childress and Shurmur showed a pathetic display of play calling and were absolutely clueless. Greg Little should have been cut and should never have been drafted by Heckert to begin with. We're trying to make a third-rate RB become a #2 WR, which does not happen on planet Earth. Richardson's strength comes from sweeps through the 3 or 4 hole and he was given I think, 2 of these. One of which resulted in a 9 yard carry, the other being 5 yards (averaging 7 yards per carry with these 2 runs which he excels at).

Our O-Line gave Weeden enough time to make up his mind and take his time, but he can't use every second of that time to eye up his receiver on his way down the field; practically advertising where the ball is going from the snap.

Just a terrible display of Play Calling, Coaching, Offensive non-Coordination and a total failure on behalf of the Offense as a whole. The Defense should be treated out to dinner by the Offense 5 days in a row leading up to Saturday for their outstanding play.

PS: I cannot wait until October 16th when Haslem cleans house and this time it is going to mean something with a new owner who actually cares. It's unfortunate to rebuild the organization yet again, but this time we have an owner who is going to be the face of the organization and actually care about results rather than concessions and profits off alcohol, because all of us Browns fans need a damn case of Bud to get through 4 quarters of this joke.

I agree that Richardson is better off tackle.  But why rush him back?  I mean even if they say he is 100%.  The offense was going nowhere fast... I just think they should handle him with more care and not have him running up the gut when 8 men are in the box.  That is just silly.  Especially for a guy that we need to play well in December.  Not freaking September - when he is just coming back from knee surgery.

The biggest thing that has held the Browns franchise back since 1999 (IMO) - is that we have never had steady QB play.  I laugh (really want to ) every season when CBS or Fox puts up the stat showing how many starting QB's we've had since 1999.  The number was 17 on Sunday!!  13 of those being rookies. W.T.F.

You do not win in this league without steady QB play.  And to be an elite team in the NFL, you need an elite QB.

The only time the Browns have rolled the dice on a QB - high in the 1st round was in 1999 with Tim Couch.  And that was with an expansion franchise, which had an offensive line equivalent to a block of swiss cheese.

The thing that kills me... Is now is the time to invest in a high draft pick for a QB.  The reason?  We have a better offensive line... Arguably one of the best Left Tackles in the game.  And a great center in Mack.  If we spend a high first round pick on a QB.  This team will improve.  You won't have 4 INT's and a 5 passing rating (in Weeden).

To be frank, I'm still pissed that we spent picks on Richardson and Weeden.  This is a passing league.  And to spend a top 5 pick on a HB in 2012 - when the league is throwing the ball around like mad... Wasn't wise.  You can get solid HB's later in rounds 2 and 3 that can produce.  Heck - you can get free agent HB's on the cheap.  So to spend a top 5 on a HB burned my ass.  And still does.

Then to go after an inconsistent QB in Weeden - the chances of that panning out are nill.  I'm sorry to sound absolute on this.  But he is terrible with accuracy.  And that is what you have to have in this league.  An accurate passer with a quick release to sustain drives.

I was sad when I saw the NFL.com predicted the Browns would be 3-13 this season... But after watching the incompetent offense on Sunday.... I hate to say this but agree with their prediction.  I actually hope it comes true so we can get a QB.  The kid I'm keeping my eye on is Logan Thomas from VT.  He looks like a big, athletic kid who could improve as the season moves along.  Will be interesting to see if he can project like a Cam Newton.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I agree that Richardson is better off tackle.  But why rush him back?  I mean even if they say he is 100%.  The offense was going nowhere fast... I just think they should handle him with more care and not have him running up the gut when 8 men are in the box.  That is just silly.  Especially for a guy that we need to play well in December.  Not freaking September - when he is just coming back from knee surgery.

The biggest thing that has held the Browns franchise back since 1999 (IMO) - is that we have never had steady QB play.  I laugh (really want to ) every season when CBS or Fox puts up the stat showing how many starting QB's we've had since 1999.  The number was 17 on Sunday!!  13 of those being rookies.  W.T.F.

You do not win in this league without steady QB play.  And to be an elite team in the NFL, you need an elite QB.

The only time the Browns have rolled the dice on a QB - high in the 1st round was in 1999 with Tim Couch.  And that was with an expansion franchise, which had an offensive line equivalent to a block of swiss cheese.

The thing that kills me... Is now is the time to invest in a high draft pick for a QB.  The reason?  We have a better offensive line... Arguably one of the best Left Tackles in the game.  And a great center in Mack.  If we spend a high first round pick on a QB.  This team will improve.  You won't have 4 INT's and a 5 passing rating (in Weeden).

To be frank, I'm still pissed that we spent picks on Richardson and Weeden.  This is a passing league.  And to spend a top 5 pick on a HB in 2012 - when the league is throwing the ball around like mad... Wasn't wise.  You can get solid HB's later in rounds 2 and 3 that can produce.  Heck - you can get free agent HB's on the cheap.  So to spend a top 5 on a HB burned my ass.  And still does.

Then to go after an inconsistent QB in Weeden - the chances of that panning out are nill.  I'm sorry to sound absolute on this.  But he is terrible with accuracy.  And that is what you have to have in this league.  An accurate passer with a quick release to sustain drives.

I was sad when I saw the NFL.com predicted the Browns would be 3-13 this season... But after watching the incompetent offense on Sunday.... I hate to say this but agree with their prediction.  I actually hope it comes true so we can get a QB.  The kid I'm keeping my eye on is Logan Thomas from VT.  He looks like a big, athletic kid who could improve as the season moves along.  Will be interesting to see if he can project like a Cam Newton.

I'm 100% with you on all of this.

The sad and redundant part is, if we do suck it up this year and go 3-13 with #1.... we'll have yet another rookie QB in our sights. I already hear analysts on the radio (92.3 The Fan and ESPN) talking about Barkley or an equivalent. We're moving into Week 2 and we're discussing new QBs? I really get sick to my stomach when I hear this same bs year, after year, after year, for the past 13 years.

I wasn't that upset with moving up for Richardson to be honest because he eventually will become the face of our offense. I really hope he can transition into an all around threat like Adrian P. in his prime did for the Vikings. Combine that with a confident QB, not even an elite one, and add some elite WRs and I think we'll be fine. Remember, you don't necessarily need an elite QB to win championships. Flacco did it and he is by far, not an elite QB. He's a well established and good QB, but not on the same level as Brady, Favre, Rodgers, or Brees.

Right now we need 2 WRs with 4.5 40s and hands like glue. That right there would move us up dramatically.... so why did we pass up on Dwayne Bowe and others in the off-season? Our Front Office is run by morons... in my opinion

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Spyder

I'm 100% with you on all of this.

The sad and redundant part is, if we do suck it up this year and go 3-13 with #1.... we'll have yet another rookie QB in our sights. I already hear analysts on the radio (92.3 The Fan and ESPN) talking about Barkley or an equivalent. We're moving into Week 2 and we're discussing new QBs? I really get sick to my stomach when I hear this same bs year, after year, after year, for the past 13 years.

I wasn't that upset with moving up for Richardson to be honest because he eventually will become the face of our offense. I really hope he can transition into an all around threat like Adrian P. in his prime did for the Vikings. Combine that with a confident QB, not even an elite one, and add some elite WRs and I think we'll be fine. Remember, you don't necessarily need an elite QB to win championships. Flacco did it and he is by far, not an elite QB. He's a well established and good QB, but not on the same level as Brady, Favre, Rodgers, or Brees.

Right now we need 2 WRs with 4.5 40s and hands like glue. That right there would move us up dramatically.... so why did we pass up on Dwayne Bowe and others in the off-season? Our Front Office is run by morons... in my opinion

I love watching Adrian Peterson.  He is a stud.  But his shelf life - and any HB's in the 'Not For Long' (NFL) have short shelf life.  So while I love the idea of Trent Richardson becoming an AP for the Browns... The chances are stacked against us.  HB's get crushed by LB's and lineman.  And heat seeking missiles that go by the name of Troy Polamalu.

Guys like Jamal Lewis - picked up by the Browns is an example of decent production for a few years - even when the dude was past his prime.  I'd rather see us spend a high first round draft pick on finding a QB - rather than a HB that will get beat up and shelved due to injury.  And then get HB's via free agency.

Also, Flacco has yet to win anything other than an NFC North title... Maybe Weeden could turn into a Flacco?  I doubt it.  Why?  Because of a few things...

1.) The Ravens have one of the best defenses in the league - consistently every year.  The Browns defense is better - but not on the same level as the Ravens (at least yet).

2.) Weeden is 28yrs old.  He is a rookie in the NFL.  Flacco is 27yrs old - going into his 4th season as an NFL veteran.  I think Flacco when drafted could be groomed and had more upside given he was younger.  I just don't see the upside in a 28yr old QB - who is a rookie in a system lacking playmakers.  The window of time for Weeden is going to be much shorter.  Again, why we drafted a guy who is 28yrs old was a head scratcher for me.

Ugggh.... It is going to be another long season.  I'm glad I didn't buy the NFL Sunday ticket.  At least this gives me a chance to go out and drink at the bar, and drown in my sorrows.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I love watching Adrian Peterson.  He is a stud.  But his shelf life - and any HB's in the 'Not For Long' (NFL) have short shelf life.  So while I love the idea of Trent Richardson becoming an AP for the Browns... The chances are stacked against us.  HB's get crushed by LB's and lineman.  And heat seeking missiles that go by the name of Troy Polamalu.

Guys like Jamal Lewis - picked up by the Browns is an example of decent production for a few years - even when the dude was past his prime.  I'd rather see us spend a high first round draft pick on finding a QB - rather than a HB that will get beat up and shelved due to injury.  And then get HB's via free agency.

Also, Flacco has yet to win anything other than an NFC North title... Maybe Weeden could turn into a Flacco?  I doubt it.  Why?  Because of a few things...

1.) The Ravens have one of the best defenses in the league - consistently every year.  The Browns defense is better - but not on the same level as the Ravens (at least yet).

2.) Weeden is 28yrs old.  He is a rookie in the NFL.  Flacco is 27yrs old - going into his 4th season as an NFL veteran.  I think Flacco when drafted could be groomed and had more upside given he was younger.  I just don't see the upside in a 28yr old QB - who is a rookie in a system lacking playmakers.  The window of time for Weeden is going to be much shorter.  Again, why we drafted a guy who is 28yrs old was a head scratcher for me.

Ugggh.... It is going to be another long season.  I'm glad I didn't buy the NFL Sunday ticket.  At least this gives me a chance to go out and drink at the bar, and drown in my sorrows.

Well, the Browns are great on D and their Run Defense is going to increase this year as well (Last year we were #2 Pass Defense.. surprisingly.. yet an ugly 30th in Run D).

I think Richardson is going to be a great talent on the team and I'm excited about him. I was not excited about Weeden from the start though and I doubt he's going to be the answer, but you just never know so I can't say for certain or get too down about his first game. I definitely know, as well as what most other intelligent Browns fans should know, that Colt McCoy is not the answer for sure so they better not start their bullshit and begin chanting his name at any point in time, unless Weeden repeats his performance two more times.

I agree with you on Weeden too. He's too damn old and being 28 is not an advantage like Heckert and Shurmur tried telling the goons in their post-draft press conferences. I just want a QB to be excited about, a TE and a WR or 2 WR's to be excited about, and I think that alone will be a great help to the team and help us compete with the Ravens and Squeelers.

I'm still optimistic for an 8-8 season this year, but I'm laughing at anyone who mentions Playoffs (insane to think that there are still people in this city saying that word after 13 years of losing....)

I'll be at a watering hole though, just like you, every Sunday... drowning my sorrows as well

[tiger187126]

rgIII is too short, eh?

sorry to add to the misery, but i had to get that jab in after how ridiculous your FO was pouting about shanny and fischer.

you are absolutely right about QB's being king though. you cannot win without one. AP is one of the best RB's in years and yet how is his team? middle to bottom of the pack except for the year when they had favre healthy.

the biggest reason for this is because offensive linemen have not grown at the same rate as defensive linemen. there was an article written on it recently. pro bowl tackles are tossed to side like scrubs for younger players all the time. all the athletic freaks who have size play on defense. this means less road graters for the running backs and more emphasis on the short, quick passing game.

i would love to see you guys rule the AFC North and knock off the ravens (whose fans i cannot stand), but i don't think that will happen this year so i guess we'll see each other december.

[jamo]

Guys like Jamal Lewis - picked up by the Browns is an example of decent production for a few years - even when the dude was past his prime.  I'd rather see us spend a high first round draft pick on finding a QB - rather than a HB that will get beat up and shelved due to injury. And then get HB's via free agency.

BenJarvus Green-Ellis was out there for the taking this year. Never spectacular but always solid. Also, if your team is ever playing against him, just make sure to repeat the sentence "Green-Ellis has never fumbled in his NFL career" a thousand times in the week leading up to the game.

[Beachcomber]

I chose to play golf rather than watch the Browns.  What the hell happened?  The offensive stat line for the Browns looked amazing.  Did our defense just forget how to play?  No pass rush?  What the heck happened?  Polar opposites of week #1?

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I chose to play golf rather than watch the Browns.  What the hell happened?  The offensive stat line for the Browns looked amazing.  Did our defense just forget how to play?  No pass rush?  What the heck happened?  Polar opposites of week #1?

The offense played very well for once. Weeden sat in the pocket until the last minute and was completing passes while being hit or swarmed on. Our O-Linemens' backs were pressed against Weeden several times where Weeden sat in the pocket and his follow-through with his throwing hand would hit an opposing player's helmet. I think he's no longer afraid of the rush or being hit at this point.

Richardson played great and averaged something like 5.7 yards per carry and broke open 2 TD's.

The defense, as a whole, could not really stop Green-Ellis and the Bengal WRs. Haden's absence was definitely very apparent and we needed him on Green very badly.

All in all it was actually a great, watchable game for once and I'm actually excited now. The Punt Return by the Bengals was the nail in the coffin though.... The returner was never even touched - I mean not even a finger print on him after that return.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Spyder

The offense played very well for once. Weeden sat in the pocket until the last minute and was completing passes while being hit or swarmed on. Our O-Linemens' backs were pressed against Weeden several times where Weeden sat in the pocket and his follow-through with his throwing hand would hit an opposing player's helmet. I think he's no longer afraid of the rush or being hit at this point.

Richardson played great and averaged something like 5.7 yards per carry and broke open 2 TD's.

The defense, as a whole, could not really stop Green-Ellis and the Bengal WRs. Haden's absence was definitely very apparent and we needed him on Green very badly.

All in all it was actually a great, watchable game for once and I'm actually excited now. The Punt Return by the Bengals was the nail in the coffin though.... The returner was never even touched - I mean not even a finger print on him after that return.

We miss Brad Seeley. In the brief span of three year we've gone from one of the best ST teams in the league to one of the worst.

Confession: First two games I simply could not sit thru the entire game, cuz I was thinking 'Same old Browns' - when they got down two scores I assumed game over cuz the offense historically cannot score twice. Those days are over. With Weed's arm & TR's legs, we are in games now. So for today's game against Buffalo I vow to watch until there's triple zeros on the clock.

And honestly, that's all I want (for now). I don't mind losing games....well yeah I do, but for God's sake just be watchable. It's one thing to be bad; it's another to be boringly bad. Ultimately, it's entertainment. For crying out loud, be entertaining.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

We miss Brad Seeley. In the brief span of three year we've gone from one of the best ST teams in the league to one of the worst.

Confession: First two games I simply could not sit thru the entire game, cuz I was thinking 'Same old Browns' - when they got down two scores I assumed game over cuz the offense historically cannot score twice. Those days are over. With Weed's arm & TR's legs, we are in games now. So for today's game against Buffalo I vow to watch until there's triple zeros on the clock.

And honestly, that's all I want (for now). I don't mind losing games....well yeah I do, but for God's sake just be watchable. It's one thing to be bad; it's another to be boringly bad. Ultimately, it's entertainment. For crying out loud, be entertaining.

I have no words for the game yesterday. Just pathetic, that's all I can say.

[zipazoid]

All I can say is, Jimmy Haslam is watching, and Shurmur's 4-15 record as head coach doesn't equate to job security. Haslam didn't spend $1b to lose.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

All I can say is, Jimmy Haslam is watching, and Shurmur's 4-15 record as head coach doesn't equate to job security. Haslam didn't spend $1b to lose.

I can only hope that Haslam is ready to clear house on October 16th.

I'm tired of hearing people say that getting rid of Shurmur, Holmgren and Heckert would take us back 10 steps. When the hell did we move forward 10 steps? We have new players, absolutely. An idiot could have made the draft choices that Heckert did, so he did nothing outstanding or unpredictable there. The icing on the cake is that, again , we are a losing team with a 0-3 start to the season - again . Nothing changed in the W column of our standings and that is what matters, period.

Blow the whole damn thing up and try again, what does it matter at this point. At this pace with our current coaching staff, besides Dick J. on Defense, we're a 3-13 team at best.

[zipazoid]

I've been hearing fans say, and rightfully so, that we can't keep rebooting by blowing up & starting over every three years. It's a valid point.

But it's going to happen, because again, Haslam is coming in and nobody currently on the coaching staff - or front office - are his guys.

Now, even though we're 0-3 again, it is not as hopeless as previous years. The offense has shown signs of life, and they overall team is very young. They'll improve as the year goes on.

So the course Haslam needs to do is selective replacement of key front office personnel without blowing everything up. I see something like this:

Holmgren: Gone. Look for Joe Banner from Philly being brought in. Consensus is Holmgren is simply collecting a check.

Heckert: Keep. Hes given us Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden, Benjamin, Gordon, Schwartz. There's our core.

Shurmur: Get the F out of here. He does what his laminated sheet tells him to do.

Jauron: Keep. He's got the defense playing well, given Haden's suspended, Gocong out for the year, Taylor out until November.

Childress: An OC who doesn't call the plays? WTF?

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I've been hearing fans say, and rightfully so, that we can't keep rebooting by blowing up & starting over every three years. It's a valid point.

But it's going to happen, because again, Haslam is coming in and nobody currently on the coaching staff - or front office - are his guys.

Now, even though we're 0-3 again, it is not as hopeless as previous years. The offense has shown signs of life, and they overall team is very young. They'll improve as the year goes on.

So the course Haslam needs to do is selective replacement of key front office personnel without blowing everything up. I see something like this:

Holmgren: Gone. Look for Joe Banner from Philly being brought in. Consensus is Holmgren is simply collecting a check.

Heckert: Keep. Hes given us Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden, Benjamin, Gordon, Schwartz. There's our core.

Shurmur: Get the F out of here. He does what his laminated sheet tells him to do.

Jauron: Keep. He's got the defense playing well, given Haden's suspended, Gocong out for the year, Taylor out until November.

Childress: An OC who doesn't call the plays? WTF?

lol It's exhausting, my man. Simply... exhausting.