Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Hoganwoods

What's more important IYO

9 posts in this topic

Do you believe it's more important to have a decent swing plane or to keep the face square to the arc.  If you could choose between having a great plane or having a square clubface via a less than good plane, which would you choose and why? I'm wondering which to work on first.  I've been trying to keep the face square to the arc and I wonder if my swing plane is too bad that it won't even matter.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Originally Posted by Hoganwoods

Do you believe it's more important to have a decent swing plane or to keep the face square to the arc.  If you could choose between having a great plane or having a square clubface via a less than good plane, which would you choose and why? I'm wondering which to work on first.  I've been trying to keep the face square to the arc and I wonder if my swing plane is too bad that it won't even matter.

I believe the plane is more important because it affects your ability to generate power and hit your contact point. It also will establish your shape in part, both in terms of height and draw/fade (assuming you can control the clubface one way or another), and also determine your fitting info in terms of length and lie.

If you don't have the ability to control the face, you still make decent contact and just have a crappy dispersion. I think distance control and the ability to keep it in a "cone" are more important in navigating a course. You can aim away from trouble if you have a wide dispersion, but can't play a particular yardage, make a forced carry, or get near the green in regulation. I also think you can't get any sort of power advantage without an efficient swing and therefore a good plane.

Whether it's a bit flat or upright isn't an issue, if it's a bit across the ball or in to out isn't a huge deal. As I interpret your choice though, we're choosing between inconsistent face angles (longer and more solid but not straight) or inconsistent plane (straight but inconsistent distance and contact). Realistically, I think having a reasonably correct face angle is really not that hard as long as your grip and ball position don't change. Having a perfect plane is more difficult and requires some discipline to change, and is very hard to feel.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I believe the plane is more important because it affects your ability to generate power and hit your contact point. It also will establish your shape in part, both in terms of height and draw/fade (assuming you can control the clubface one way or another), and also determine your fitting info in terms of length and lie.

If you don't have the ability to control the face, you still make decent contact and just have a crappy dispersion. I think distance control and the ability to keep it in a "cone" are more important in navigating a course. You can aim away from trouble if you have a wide dispersion, but can't play a particular yardage, make a forced carry, or get near the green in regulation. I also think you can't get any sort of power advantage without an efficient swing and therefore a good plane.

Whether it's a bit flat or upright isn't an issue, if it's a bit across the ball or in to out isn't a huge deal. As I interpret your choice though, we're choosing between inconsistent face angles (longer and more solid but not straight) or inconsistent plane (straight but inconsistent distance and contact). Realistically, I think having a reasonably correct face angle is really not that hard as long as your grip and ball position don't change. Having a perfect plane is more difficult and requires some discipline to change, and is very hard to feel.

That's pretty much what's been happening to me for most of the late part of the season.  Working on keeping the face as square as possible and my starting lines are much better but my miss is now fat.  I never used to hit it fat at all, but my dispersion was also not great and I never really felt in control of the clubface at all.  I also feel like trying to square the face to the arc makes my backswing more steep.  I guess I'm wondering if keeping the face more square by preventing my forearms from rotating as much as possible will by itself change my plane as well.  Been a while since I had instruction, maybe I'll sign up again.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you can have one without the other honestly.  If you have a proper swing plane and the face is open you're gonna slice. If you have an outside-in swing plane and the face is square to that plane you're going to pull it.  Inside out you're gonna push, etc.  The best practice I've done is without hitting a ball.  Go through the motions of a good swing enough times and it will start to get engrained in your head.  After trying a million swing fixes my swing ended up being a total disaster.  Get some help or video yourself and get some feedback.  I got two simple tips that got me back on track and hitting my irons really good again.  I'm spending the off season with an instructor on my driver, which has been terrible since coming back to the game after a 10 year break.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For one thing, its impossible to keep the face square to the path, the foreamrs and wrist rotate 90 degrees through out the backswing. Even that swing path isn't the key to a good swing, if so players like Jim Furyk wouldn't be able to play professional golf.

Go to the 5 key's thread, they are the in my opinion the top 5 important keys to a good golf swing. If you got that, then you can perform a figure 8 for all i care in the golf swing

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by saevel25

For one thing, its impossible to keep the face square to the path

I agree.  It's going to open slightly on your backswing unless you want to look like some sort of robot whacking balls around.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Tom Shanks

I agree.  It's going to open slightly on your backswing unless you want to look like some sort of robot whacking balls around.


Yes well, I can do it up to a certain point but it feels ridiculous and becomes impossible to continue to hold it.  I agree with what you are saying though, but at which point do you begin rotating forearms to open the clubface?  My issue is my main flaw was fanning the forearms open on the backswing, but now I think I'm overdoing the opposite feel in order to try to eliminate it.  I wonder if I can just do the traffic cone drill from this other thread (http://thesandtrap.com/t/63433/my-swing-jhwarren#post_788830) and then just turn my shoulders and not worry about my forearms anymore after that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll stay mostly square to the midway point of the backswing when your club is parallel to the ground.  After that it's not so much a conscious turning as it's a natural rotation to get to the top of a good, on plane backswing.  If you start your takeaway good, you should end up in good shape if your wrist stays in proper form and doesn't roll over, etc.

If at the midway point in the backswing(club parallel to the ground) your club face is pointing directly upwards, you're slightly too open.  If it's pointing beyond vertical(away from the ball) you're way to open.

If you haven't researched already.....search for "one piece takeaway".  Take it with a grain of salt though, as you don't want to over do it and get your arms disconnected from your body.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of square, i to the path, i rather get the proper feeling at the top of the swing, and get that feeling, then i just try to work my way to that point. I could care less what the backswing looks like.

If you have a problem rotating the arms, the feeling i like is more vertical wrist hinge. Hold the club infront of you and just bring the club towards your head only with wrist hinge. IF you combine that with deep hands, proper shoulder rotation, the clubhead will stay outside the hands, not inside.

Another feeling is pushing the butt of the club away from your body in the backswing.

Just try different movements, use a mirror or a video camera and see what makes the club stay on path and in a good position at the top. Really what matter's the most is the initial position just after starting the downswing. Like Furyk, he has that loop, but he's in a good position at the start of his downswing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    Leupold Golf
    Snell Golf
    Talamore Golf Resort
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • That looks nifty, but… it's only really going to be an option for awhile in some high-end places, I'm wagering. If it's a full range, you can of course see your ball flight. So the tracer itself is probably not that important, right? The points and games are another thing, kinda TopGolf-like.
    • That looks awesome! I hope that sooner or later all driving ranges will have that technology built into them.  Was it more expensive than a regular bucket of balls?
    • I didn't take it that way. I know the HGG quote, and that it's a way of saying "goodbye." That's not exactly "cool" though either: Mike tells you he's mad at you, I demonstrate that your impact conditions and backswing are worse, and you say "okay, goodbye." But yeah, I took it this way: That fits quite well since you keep talking about how you have to know and understand the whole system just to implement a piece, and about how your brain works that way, and so on. How I took the fish quote is pretty clear from the response, is it not? All that said, I apologize. I took it the wrong way. I reacted more strongly than I would have had I taken it the HGG way, and I'm sorry for that. Disagreement isn't intolerable at all. But you're not really disagreeing with anything, either… you're choosing to ignore things, and you seem to think that you're not being helped. You're wasting our time. Disagreement? At least there's discourse there. Ignoring? That's just a (small) slap in the face… Mike and I - and others - have given you a boatload of free advice. I can't speak for others, but I don't expect you to pay for anything, ever. When all else fails, play the victim card again? Anyone who has met @mvmac will tell you he's not quick to anger. So if you pissed him off, well, then more than likely you did something, and are not just some passive victim. P.S. You're likely getting better because you're hitting balls. You're learning how to make the flaws in your swing at least time themselves up right. You're learning to time your flip just right so that you can pick the ball off the ground without fatting or thinning it. You're learning how to sway your hips and drop your head back/early extend on the downswing so you can hit out a little bit despite being super steep (and you need a really closed stance to help you with that). You're getting better at making a flawed swing because you're repeating it often. You're lowering the ceiling on how good you can get each time you visit the range and don't practice properly, or practice the proper things. Your swing may actually be worse now than a week or two ago. We tried to help you - free, and by giving you much of our most valuable asset (our time) - and you instead pissed off one of the calmest people around and ignored the advice of many others, including me, who knows what I'm talking about. Then you chose to play the victim after a vague reference to fish, and took the easy out of saying "oh, you just don't like people who disagree." No, I don't like people who waste my time, but the solution on my end is very easy: I simply choose to stop wasting my time on them. I don't care if you disagree. I prefer it, really, so long as you're a worthy adversary. You? You don't stack up. We can't talk about some intricate part of the golf swing. Nor should you at this point, or possibly ever, because you're a golfer, not a golf instructor. That's all fine. But I can choose to stop giving you free advice, and spending my time doing it.  So if your goal is to have me ignore you from here on out, you've succeeded! :-) I'll spend my time helping those who appreciate it.
    • Did anyone make it to this?  I had some things come up and couldn't make it. Also, we should get a spring round get together going...
    • You misunderstand. Yes, of course he is one of the ATGs on the current list. What I am saying is that can change, not that it will, but it can. Like I said it is an ever expanding/changing list.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. henry granic
      henry granic
      (61 years old)
    2. Jscrillah
      Jscrillah
      (45 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon