True Importance of Club Fitting

[mmoan2]

Question: Just how important is lie in hitting your clubs properly, specifically for a wedge? I'm 6'2 with around a 36" wrist-to-floor length and I've been fitted a few times at local golf shops. Usually, the recommendation for me is to get clubs upright 2 deg and 1/2 inch long. I'm on a limited budget and want to move from the clone clubs I've had for almost 2 years to the real deal. I can find very inexpensive used clubs online in great shape, but never with those specifications. My wedge faces look like I've been using them to mine for gold (I've probably hit nearly 5000 shots with each one), so I'm wondering if I should: a) get new clones custom fitted, b) sacrifice a perfect fit with the Cleveland 588s (I've demoed wedges for quite a while now and love the feel on these) I want and have seen used online for $60 each, or c) live with my current clubs that are properly fitted until I have $400 to spend on quality, fitted wedges. Also for irons: I saw a set of used, excellent condition Mizuno JPX800 Pros with standard/standard for about $350 online. My current irons aren't in terrible shape, but they're a bit clunky and have too much offset. Should I stick with them, or get the Mizunos?

Thanks,

MJM

[Golfingdad]

Lie angle is very important. If your clubs are too flat everything will tend towards the right (if you're right handed) and the opposite is true if your clubs are too upright.

[notsohard]

6'2" and 36"....depending on manufacturer, you are standard or maybe 0.25" extra and 1deg up.

there are other factors to incorporate such as your swing, swing speed.

i cant see any problems with standard/standard for you.......today's manufacturers build clubs too upright as it is (90% of the market are slicers).

[birlyshirly]

Well, 6'2" and 36" wrist to floor measures up as a STATIC fit in Ping as 1/4 or 1/2 inch over length and 1.5* - 2.25* upright.

The kicker is, that's based only on static measurements. A dynamic lie fitting, where you hit real shots to gauge how the clubhead aligns through impact, is much more important and could easily vary from the static fit.

Lie angle is more important in wedges than in less lofted clubs - but most clubs could be tweaked in the lie angle, although I imagine clones aren't ideal for bending.

Mizunos should be fine to bend if the price is right and you have change to pay for a lie adjustment through the set. I don't know that I'd be over-worried about having to live with standard length clubs rather than 1/4 or 1/2 inch over.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

Well, 6'2" and 36" wrist to floor measures up as a STATIC fit in Ping as 1/4 or 1/2 inch over length and 1.5* - 2.25* upright.

The kicker is, that's based only on static measurements. A dynamic lie fitting, where you hit real shots to gauge how the clubhead aligns through impact, is much more important and could easily vary from the static fit.

Lie angle is more important in wedges than in less lofted clubs - but most clubs could be tweaked in the lie angle, although I imagine clones aren't ideal for bending.

Mizunos should be fine to bend if the price is right and you have change to pay for a lie adjustment through the set. I don't know that I'd be over-worried about having to live with standard length clubs rather than 1/4 or 1/2 inch over.

I took real swings at a pretty decent golf shop with a Ping i20 7 iron. That's where I was first told +1/2 inch and up 2 deg. Are forged wedges a problem to adjust in lie angle? I've heard that softer metal is easier to work (obviously), but also that because they are forged a certain way, they may return to their normal configuration anyway. Any truth to these statements? Thanks, BTW.

[notsohard]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

I took real swings at a pretty decent golf shop with a Ping i20 7 iron. That's where I was first told +1/2 inch and up 2 deg. Are forged wedges a problem to adjust in lie angle? I've heard that softer metal is easier to work (obviously), but also that because they are forged a certain way, they may return to their normal configuration anyway. Any truth to these statements? Thanks, BTW.

when adjusting lie angles on any club, have them done on the day, leave them overnight, then check them again in the morning...more often than not you have to redo a club or two because they may spring back....then check them every 6 months.

[birlyshirly]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

I took real swings at a pretty decent golf shop with a Ping i20 7 iron. That's where I was first told +1/2 inch and up 2 deg. Are forged wedges a problem to adjust in lie angle? I've heard that softer metal is easier to work (obviously), but also that because they are forged a certain way, they may return to their normal configuration anyway. Any truth to these statements? Thanks, BTW.

Forged will be easier to bend than cast. Most decent cast clubs can still go a couple of degrees either way, with the caveat that if you're buying second hand, you don't know the history. I think most forged irons will happily bend up to 4 degrees in any direction - with the catch that second hand forged irons may well NEED bent up to 4 degrees just to get them back to original spec. Forged clubs won't hold their specs as well as cast clubs.

I don't know about irons springing back to their normal configuration. Some say they do, others say it's a myth. But if it's true, you hear it most often (at least I seem to) in relation to Pings, which are notoriously hard work to bend. By that logic, I'd say its least likely to be true of forged clubs - but again, forged is more likely to get knocked out of spec with use and need reset anyway.

Lastly, if you buy pings (new or secondhand), then I think you can have Ping adjust the lie angle for the cost of shipping, or at worst a nominal charge. Great customer service.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by notsohard

6'2" and 36"....depending on manufacturer, you are standard or maybe 0.25" extra and 1deg up.

there are other factors to incorporate such as your swing, swing speed.

i cant see any problems with standard/standard for you.......today's manufacturers build clubs too upright as it is (90% of the market are slicers).

It's funny that you say this about "today's manufacturers." Also that 1 deg up or standard is right for me. I would imagine that these golf shop managers might actually make recommendations for me that are straight from the manufacturer's playbook - i.e. slice curers - when my problem is a hook anyway. That's why they almost invariably say 2 deg up, I would guess. Anyway, enough splitting hairs and time to go buy some new sticks! When I get to the point where 1 deg of lie is the bane of my existence, I'll hit up this place in Scottsdale that fits several PGA Tour pros who live here and get the real deal fitting rec.

[Fearlessgolfer]

I just spoke to the Ping tech yesterday as I am considering to change my lie of my current G15's. 4,5,6 irons stay at 1* flat, 7,8,9 to 2* flat, and all my wedges to 3* flat. It was easier changing the lie and loft when I had my Mizuno irons, but most of the local golfsmiths' doesn't want to take a chance with cast irons like Pings where it might break during the bending process. Plus, the whole bending process probably is different than at the Ping factory than at a local golfsmith.

Most of the time, I/we never hit a full shot with our wedges, and most recently I've noticed my full wedge(s) shots are curving left.

[saevel25]

Yea, casting clubs are a different animal. You also got to watch for clubs that have have an alloy finish on them. My golf pro wasn't comfortable going past a certain point on my Taylormade 2009 Burner's, because he was afraid the finish would crack on it.

Forged are pretty easy to bend. I guess this is why Ping tends to have a huge variety in lie options.

[Bobtrumpet]

Originally Posted by Fearlessgolfer

I just spoke to the Ping tech yesterday as I am considering to change my lie of my current G15's. 4,5,6 irons stay at 1* flat, 7,8,9 to 2* flat, and all my wedges to 3* flat. It was easier changing the lie and loft when I had my Mizuno irons, but most of the local golfsmiths' doesn't want to take a chance with cast irons like Pings where it might break during the bending process. Plus, the whole bending process probably is different than at the Ping factory than at a local golfsmith.

Go to youtube for the Ping manufacturing video . At about 6:45 they start showing the lie and loft adjustments: they show a tech adjusting the lie angle on an iron by wacking the bottom with a rubber mallet, while the hosel is firmly clamped, and then measuring the angle. It probably does a better job of distributing the force than using a lie bending machine, plus no marks on the hosel.

The have quite a tool for adjusting the lofts, too.

[Fearlessgolfer]

Thanks for the Ping video.

I've had many, more than I care to count, set of irons in the past 25 years of playing golf. Throughout the time, I have played three companies more than any other; Ping, Callaway and Mizuno. In my experience, Ping and Callaway have been the very best companies to deal with as far as getting customized, repair and warranting their product.

On a side note about customer service and back up their product, Footjoy by far has been a great company.