questions regarding handicaps

[bjwestner]

My understanding of the USGA handicapping system is that it is not an average or anything like that, but actually based on the potential of the player.  Until I read this, I was under the impression (as many likely are), that it was basically an average of your scores.  Since it's based on your potential, it makes sense that the system is designed so that you do not play to your handicap every time, but only 25% of the time.

I've been a member of a country club for more than 9 months now and it's amazing to see/hear about all the sand-bagging that goes on at the club when it comes to guys wanting their handicaps higher so they can win money or other things in tournaments and such.  I could care less about winning $20 or something, I want my handicap to be accurate and see it as a measuring stick of how good someone is at the game of golf.  Thus I am constantly trying to play better in an effort to get my handicap down......this is where my questions start......while a golf handicap for most people is designed to be an accurate label of their current golf game, this is not the case with me and because of it when I try to play another member of my club or one of my friends, they will not play me at my handicap versus theirs.

Because my game has improved, my handicap has been getting lower and lower.  The problem is that it does not accurately tie my real time potential to the current number.  For instance, my handicap was in the mid 13's but I ended up shooting a score that was a 9.3 index for 18 holes.  I posted the score and my handicap decreased, but only marginally.  Thus there is still a big gap between handicap and "potential".  This creates issues in trying to play games and even tournaments.

I can understand where people are coming from in that if I were in their shoes, I would not play someone or want that person playing in a tournament when clearly the handicap does not meet their potential.  In my shoes though, I have done nothing wrong.  I am simply following the system that the USGA makes everyone use.  I guess if the handicap system really were based on potential then it would mirror your recent best score (in my case 9.3), however, this would create all kinds of other issues that the handicap system was designed to prevent!

If I were to play a friend/fellow member of my club, my options are to play at their own odds that they set, but I do not even know if these are fair or not because aside from playing from money, I am left not having an accurate handicap, which makes a difference in the goals I set to what tournaments I sign up for/play or do not potentially.

I'm also concerned because what if I play in a tournament (there are several that I am considering signing up for over the summer), and since my handicap does not accurately reflect what I could shoot, what if I shot a really low score.  I know that there would be fingers pointing at me for being a sand-bagger but what else could I do?  I cannot and would not sign up a handicap lower than my actual because that would be fradulent and would just be guessing anyway.

I don't think that I have done/am doing anything wrong, so I guess my questions to everyone is is there another handicap system out there that would better show my true handicap?  Would you play in any tournaments this summer or just stay away?  Thanks for your assistance......

[Meltdwhiskey]

I think they handicap system works plenty good.  Just keep putting in your scores accurately.  I think everyone shoots a good bit lower than their handicap once in a while.  It isn't just a judge of your potential - it is the average of your 10 best scores out of your last 20 rounds.  And it is the same for the folks you will be playing against.

[bkuehn1952]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

I'm also concerned because what if I play in a tournament (there are several that I am considering signing up for over the summer), and since my handicap does not accurately reflect what I could shoot, what if I shot a really low score.  I know that there would be fingers pointing at me for being a sand-bagger but what else could I do?  I cannot and would not sign up a handicap lower than my actual because that would be fradulent and would just be guessing anyway.

Personally I would not worry about something that has not happened yet.  The odds say you will shoot worse than your handicap most of the time  Play in the tournaments and see what happens.  If you are properly recording scores, applying ESC and playing within the Rules of Golf, your handicap will be accurate and no one should point fingers or accuse you of sandbagging.  If your club's handicap committee feels your handicap does not properly reflect your rapidly improving game, they can always adjust your handicap downward.  Similarly, if your tournament scores are exceptionally good, the handicap formula will reduce your handicap beyond the normal calculation.  There is a complete set of rules and tables for adjusting handicaps for exceptional tournament scores.

My experience is that the biggest complainers about sandbagging are the vanity handicappers who like having a 4.0 index but play like a 15.0 when they have to follow the Rules and the heat is on.  Their opinions matter little to me and shouldn't matter to you either.

[hendog]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

I think they handicap system works plenty good.  Just keep putting in your scores accurately.  I think everyone shoots a good bit lower than their handicap once in a while.  It isn't just a judge of your potential - it is the average of your 10 best scores out of your last 20 rounds.  And it is the same for the folks you will be playing against.

Just a small clarification and apologies if this is what you meant but the average is of the differentials which is different than your scores due to the rating and slope of each course. So two 88s on two different par 72 courses are not equal. Also, there is a final multiplier of .96 which is the "potential" piece I guess, always pushing you to play better if you want to shoot net par.

To the OP:

When you are in the teens lots of things can happen. I was 17 a couple years ago (so around 90 for Net Par) but I figured something out and played a stretch of several months shooting 84, 83, 85 etc. The handicap went down but a few of those scores were shot whilst playing at a 17. People were not happy with me but I just told them to wait and it would all flow back and sure enough it has. I still shoot those low scores and ever lower but my handicap has caught up so instead of -5 Net I'm 0 or +1 etc.

Personally I would only get upset if I noticed someone over time stay at a high handicap but always seem to play really good for money. I might check the handicap system to see if those rounds are going in or ask around. Even then I only care if I am forced to play against this person as part of some regular game that I don't want to simply quit. Otherwise I would just avoid him/her.

At the end of the day if you are honest then you can sleep well.

[boil3rmak3r]

OP - I think you're worrying over nothing.  It's great that you are playing well and your handicap WILL come down if you keep it up and post all your scores.  In the example you gave, you were a mid 13 cap and played to a 9.2.  According to the USGA (see table below), your odds of doing that were 87:1.  I think that's in the "normal" range.

Odds of Shooting an Exceptional Tournament Score

Handicap Index Ranges
Net Differential	5.9 or less	6.0-12.9	13.0-21.9	22.0-30.9	31.0 or greater
0 to -0.9	5	5	5	5	5
-1.0 to -1.9	10	10	10	8	7
-2.0 to -2.9	23	22	21	13	10
-3.0 to -3.9	57	51	43	23	15
-4.0 to -4.9	151	121	87	40	22
-5.0 to -5.9	379	276	174	72	35
-6.0 to -6.9	790	536	323	130	60
-7.0 to -7.9	2349	1200	552	229	101
-8.0 to -8.9	20111	4467	1138	382	185
-9.0 to -9.9	48219	27877	3577	695	359
-10 or less	125000	84300	37000	1650	874

[PirateJim]

I am just echoing the previous advice to keep recording honest scores and the handicap will sort itself out over time. I decided to take golf back up last fall and have been working pretty hard at my game since. In February or March I started playing a local friendly skins game. I got several comments (frindly ribbing fortunately) about my 20 handicap in the first few weeks. The index has been dropping steadily, and interestingly I have been winning more skins lately too. Fortunately, my game keeps getting better and the handicap keeps going down. Last week over beers someone opined that 13 seemed too high. I smiled and took it as a compliment. Given my age and physical prowess, I expect my improvement will slow down before too long and the index will level out. Yours likely will too at some point.

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

OP - I think you're worrying over nothing.  It's great that you are playing well and your handicap WILL come down if you keep it up and post all your scores.  In the example you gave, you were a mid 13 cap and played to a 9.2.  According to the USGA (see table below), your odds of doing that were 87:1.  I think that's in the "normal" range.

Odds of Shooting an Exceptional Tournament Score

Handicap Index Ranges

Net Differential

5.9 or less

6.0-12.9

13.0-21.9

22.0-30.9

31.0 or greater

0 to -0.9

5

5

5

5

5

-1.0 to -1.9

10

10

10

8

7

-2.0 to -2.9

23

22

21

13

10

-3.0 to -3.9

57

51

43

23

15

-4.0 to -4.9

151

121

87

40

22

-5.0 to -5.9

379

276

174

72

35

-6.0 to -6.9

790

536

323

130

60

-7.0 to -7.9

2349

1200

552

229

101

-8.0 to -8.9

20111

4467

1138

382

185

-9.0 to -9.9

48219

27877

3577

695

359

-10 or less

125000

84300

37000

1650

874

You are correct, but it's happening too much (not a bad thing necessarily).  This past weekend I shot an 82 (10.2 rating).  About 22 to 1 odds.  According to the USGA, only 1 out of every 5 rounds or so should equal y our handicap.

I guess I'm just frustrated because I don't know where my game actually is.

[chriskzoo]

The ~1 out of 5 rounds thing is pretty simple to understand, since you take only your 10 best of your last 20 rounds.  By taking only the 10 best, you are already depressing your "average" and considering that 5 of those 10 rounds you count are likely to be even lower, 1/2 of your handicap is made up of the top 25% of your last 20 rounds.

That being said, overcoming a wall in your game will drop it pretty quick.  I have been bouncing between an 8.3 and 9.3 for about a year and just shot a 72 (career best) and my index is now trending to a 7.3.  Basically 1 round dropped a stroke off my handicap.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

According to the USGA, only 1 out of every 5 rounds or so should equal y our handicap.

This is true.  Chris already explained it pretty well, and I'll simply add to it. ;)  If its best 10 out of last 20, then that puts you at 1 in 4, then you factor in the 0.96 number that's part of the formula so you're shooting under your cap 21% of the time.  That said ...

I always find it amusing how we talk about handicaps on here so generally.  Like "your" handicap is set in stone or something.  I guess that may be true for some people; perhaps those that aren't taking lessons, or those that have just been playing for so long that their game is what it is, but for a lot of us who ARE taking lessons and practicing a lot, that number moves quite a bit.

So if you happen to be somebody that is improving, then obviously you will shoot your handicap a lot more than 1 out of 5, and likewise, if you are getting worse, then it will be considerably less than 1 out of 5 ... until in either case it reaches a plateau of some kind.

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This is true.  Chris already explained it pretty well, and I'll simply add to it. ;)  If its best 10 out of last 20, then that puts you at 1 in 4, then you factor in the 0.96 number that's part of the formula so you're shooting under your cap 21% of the time.  That said ...

I always find it amusing how we talk about handicaps on here so generally.  Like "your" handicap is set in stone or something.  I guess that may be true for some people; perhaps those that aren't taking lessons, or those that have just been playing for so long that their game is what it is, but for a lot of us who ARE taking lessons and practicing a lot, that number moves quite a bit.

So if you happen to be somebody that is improving, then obviously you will shoot your handicap a lot more than 1 out of 5, and likewise, if you are getting worse, then it will be considerably less than 1 out of 5 ... until in either case it reaches a plateau of some kind.

I agree with you to that point, however, per the USGA the handicap is based on potential.  I do not see how "potential" is factored in when it's just the 10 best of the last 20 scores with a factor of .96.  It just seems that there is a hole in the system in this instance.  It will catch up eventually, but until that happens I am left without an accurate number that assesses my skill.  This is pretty clear because nobody at my club will play me based on my handicap.....

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

It will catch up eventually, but until that happens I am left without an accurate number that assesses my skill.  This is pretty clear because nobody at my club will play me based on my handicap.....

Correct.  It's not an inaccurate number, its just that you are improving so you're more likely to beat it at this point.  It's a GOOD problem to have!  I'm in the same boat right now, and hopefully it keeps going like that!

Eventually, you'll get to the point where you are kind of "steady" but lets hope for your sake that it comes later rather than sooner.  Until then, accept the fact that nobody wants to play you for money, and just play for fun and in tournaments.  They can't exclude you from those just cuz you're improving!!