Provisional Ball Allowed?

[Dormie1360]

Frankly, I'm all for playing a second ball in a casual round to save time.  Do it myself. I just make sure the guys know under the rules it's not a provisional and it's not something you can do in a tournament.

Although it may appear that I'm fairly anal regarding the rules I'm actually not. .     I just try to be a helpful educator.

[MEfree]

Had this come up a couple of times today in Men's League

On #7, a guy who ended up not breaking 100 hits his ball off a railroad tie on border of the water hazard left of a short 3 par.  I hear it hit the railroad tie, but none of us see where the ball goes.  He ends up going to the drop area on the way to the hole and plays towards the green, before we have looked for the ball (despite the fact that one or two of us suggested that he look for his first ball first).  We end up seeing a ball right of the right bunker and think it might be from a parallel hole, but it turns out it is his original ball.  He proceeds to go play that ball and duffs 3 or 4 chips in a row and holes out for "7"

Later, I hit one into a scub area (lots of stones and some long wispy grass) on #13, a par 5- normally I would hit a provisional from the tee as this is not a marked hazard BUT there is a local rule on the card that says "Natural grass areas are considered lateral hazards"  I have discussed this with the league chairman as well as with the one other player in my group who seems to know the rules pretty well.  I wanted to go up and look for my first ball first (before taking a drop about 175 yards behind where I think I might find my original ball) but we are about a hole behind the group in front and the guy who knows the rules well (and the others in the group) tell me I should just hit a provisional to save time- I do and end up finding my original and make a "5" on that ball (and pick up the "provisional" after one shot).

So far I have played with 6 guys in this Men's League I would say that only 1 has a good understanding of the rules, 1 a decent understanding and 4 were pretty much clueless.

[Dormie1360]

In your first example, because there was no Virtual Certainty that the original ball was in the hazard, the player was not authorized to play from the drop zone.  In doing so he played using an inapplicable rule. (R26-1 Relief from Ball in Water Hazard).  The only applicable rule that would apply with what he did was R27-1 Stroke and Distance.  However, when he dropped in the drop zone he dropped in a wrong place.  R27 requires you to play from the previous spot.  When he played the dropped ball he incurred a 2 stroke penalty for playing from an wrong place as well as a 1 stroke penalty under R27.

Now, when he abandoned this ball and played his original, he played a wrong ball because that ball was no longer in play.  The first thing to decide is whether or not the player, when playing the ball from the drop zone,  committed a serious breach.  A serious breach is when a player gains a significant advantage from playing from a wrong place. (Wrong Place R20-7)  In this case he played from a drop zone vs. the previous spot back on the tee which he should have under R27, so I'm guessing it was a serious breach.  In that case he was required to correct by playing from the correct spot before he teed off from the next hole.  The correct spot is back on the tee under rule 27.

So he should have went back to the tee playing his 5th stroke.  ( His original stroke, plus 3 penalty strokes.)  If he teed off on the next hole without doing this, he is DQ'd.  I believe he's off the hook for the wrong ball penalty because it occurred after he played form the Wrong Place with a serious breach.

If there was no serious breach committed from playing from the wrong place, he would have to correct the error for playing the wrong ball.  (He abandoned his ball played from the drop zone, when he should not have.)   So before he teed off on the next hole, he would have had to go back and continue play from where his ball ended up from his stroke from the drop zone,adding 5 PS to his score.  2 for the Wrong ball and 2 for the Wrong Place, and 1 under R27.

This one was interesting,  Let me know if I have it wrong.  The thing I'm not sure is the 2PS for the wrong ball if the player played from the wrong place and it was a serious breach.  Normally, when you have to correct, any penalty strokes incurred after playing from the wrong place do not count.

[rogolf]

I believe he's off the hook for the wrong ball penalty because it occurred after he played form the Wrong Place with a serious breach.

Decision 20-7c/5 may suggest otherwise.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by rogolf

I believe he's off the hook for the wrong ball penalty because it occurred after he played form the Wrong Place with a serious breach.

Decision 20-7c/5 may suggest otherwise.

I agree. Thanks for looking it up.