Approach Play to Elevated / Lowered Greens?

[leezer99]

So, I was looking at this image and wondered what the best way is to play your approach to an elevated green versus a lowered green. Is the spin and velocity profile at θ' much different than at θ? I don't know the physics of it but to my wee brain, it would seem that at θ' the spin would be higher but velocity lower. At θ the spin would seem to be lower but velocity higher since it has more time to fall from its peak where it would be zero. Even the image below is off visually since we know the arc of the ball flight isn't consistent throughout. 

 

It's okay if you tell me I'm overthinking this. 😂

 

[Ty_Webb]

Spin will decay slightly over time, but not by a lot. The horizontal portion of the velocity will also decay due to air resistance. The vertical component will be increasing since the ball is accelerating due to gravity (albeit that the spin is creating lift, which will counteract that some). Neither of those has much of an impact of how the ball will react. The biggest difference is the vertical land angle. The angle theta prime (not sure how to show that on here) will be shallower than theta. That means the ball will stop faster at theta than at theta prime. The other thing is because there is still a horizontal component to the velocity, it will carry less far at theta prime than at theta. 

The effects of those two things work in opposite directions. Which one "wins" will depend on ground conditions, ball flight, spin, any necessary carry distances, etc. Fortunately the margins are fairly small so you can wing it with enough experience. The calculation of the carry distance change is what your range finder estimates when you have slope turned on.

[saevel25]

Yea, it's more complicated than your high school projectile motion equations. 

40 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Spin will decay slightly over time, but not by a lot.

I am thinking it could increase under certain conditions. A gust of wind blowing in the same direction as the spin, causing more high and low pressure on the ball in a certain way that it increases the spin? 

41 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

The vertical component will be increasing since the ball is accelerating due to gravity (albeit that the spin is creating lift, which will counteract that some).

It has zero vertical velocity at its apex. So, it is all velocity caused by gravity for the vertical component. 

43 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

The biggest difference is the vertical land angle. The angle theta prime (not sure how to show that on here) will be shallower than theta.

Yea, landing angle is a big thing. 

It is parabolic. Your apex is 90 yards in the air. A 30-yard elevated green is 1/3rd that height. At the apex, your vertical descent angle is zero, it should be horizontal. So, you are going from zero theta to let's say 45 degrees. Even if it was linear, let's say you're landing angle is close to 30 degrees. That is less than a driver and probably is significant. 

Yea, it depends on how you hit it. Especially for downhill shots. If you hit a flighted shot, it might react more like a normal shot because of the lower launch and lower apex relative to your position. Versus a normal shot might come in at like 70 degrees, instead of 45 degrees. 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

54 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Spin will decay slightly over time, but not by a lot. The horizontal portion of the velocity will also decay due to air resistance. The vertical component will be increasing since the ball is accelerating due to gravity (albeit that the spin is creating lift, which will counteract that some). Neither of those has much of an impact of how the ball will react. The biggest difference is the vertical land angle. The angle theta prime (not sure how to show that on here) will be shallower than theta. That means the ball will stop faster at theta than at theta prime. The other thing is because there is still a horizontal component to the velocity, it will carry less far at theta prime than at theta. 

The effects of those two things work in opposite directions. Which one "wins" will depend on ground conditions, ball flight, spin, any necessary carry distances, etc. Fortunately the margins are fairly small so you can wing it with enough experience. The calculation of the carry distance change is what your range finder estimates when you have slope turned on.

 

All great info. Thanks for the reply. 

[Archie Bunker]

Ask Bryson DeChambeau. I'm sure he has the answer somewhere in his notebook.😉

[GolfLug]

On 9/19/2025 at 7:29 AM, leezer99 said:

So, I was looking at this image and wondered what the best way is to play your approach to an elevated green versus a lowered green. Is the spin and velocity profile at θ' much different than at θ? I don't know the physics of it but to my wee brain, it would seem that at θ' the spin would be higher but velocity lower. At θ the spin would seem to be lower but velocity higher since it has more time to fall from its peak where it would be zero. Even the image below is off visually since we know the arc of the ball flight isn't consistent throughout. 

 

It's okay if you tell me I'm overthinking this. 😂

 

My two cents.. you are not wrong but you ARE overthinking it. The descent angle/spin variance is not high enough at either shelf to warrant anything other than a club adjustment for distance. Green speed/topography has far more influence on roll out.

Expect maybe a tiny bit more roll out at the higher shelf if you are a low spin player.

[Mystique]

On 9/19/2025 at 2:29 PM, leezer99 said:

So, I was looking at this image and wondered what the best way is to play your approach to an elevated green versus a lowered green. Is the spin and velocity profile at θ' much different than at θ? I don't know the physics of it but to my wee brain, it would seem that at θ' the spin would be higher but velocity lower. At θ the spin would seem to be lower but velocity higher since it has more time to fall from its peak where it would be zero. Even the image below is off visually since we know the arc of the ball flight isn't consistent throughout. 

 

It's okay if you tell me I'm overthinking this. 😂

 

 

 

I’ve played around with this a lot and honestly it’s less about overthinking the physics and more about how the ball reacts when it lands, for elevated greens I always feel like you need a bit more club and a higher, softer flight because you’re effectively taking away rollout and the ball lands steeper, while for lowered greens it’s the opposite, the ball comes in flatter with more forward momentum so you get that extra release. Your idea about spin and velocity isn’t totally off, but in real play the difference you notice most is descent angle and how much the ball stops or runs out. It’s kind of like going for something simple and direct instead of overcomplicating things, similar to how a no account casino lets you jump straight in without extra steps and see immediate results. That same mindset helps on the course, keep it simple and adjust for height rather than trying to calculate everything. Once you get a feel for it, it becomes more instinct than theory.

 

For me it’s still pretty straightforward, I don’t really think in terms of spin physics during the shot, I just adjust based on what I usually see on the course: when the green is elevated I always take at least one extra club because the ball effectively plays longer, the flight feels shorter, and it tends to land steeper and stop quicker with less rollout, especially if you hit it high; when the green is lower I do the opposite, take less club because the ball travels a bit farther, comes in flatter, and usually releases more after landing so I plan for extra roll; in terms of spin I don’t really feel a huge difference from elevation alone, it’s more about strike and trajectory, the main thing that changes is how the ball lands and how much it rolls out after that.

[The Recreational Golfer]

With elevated greens, you have to hit a high shot or else the ball will land at a shallow angle and probably run off the green.

With lowered greens, I like to use more club and punch the ball to keep it low so it gets onto the green as soon as possible. 

[Shindig]

On 5/22/2026 at 1:20 PM, The Recreational Golfer said:

With lowered greens, I like to use more club and punch the ball to keep it low so it gets onto the green as soon as possible. 

Can you elaborate on this?  There's a par-4 hole at the course I've played the most (was my home course for over a decade, now 50 miles away but I still go and play there) whose green is below the fairway and I realized recently it's one of three holes on the course I've never made birdie, despite that I often have a short iron into the green for my second shot.  It isn't even that I haven't made birdie, but I realize I often don't hit the green.  My typical play of the hole is to have a near-GIR and sometimes I get up and down, but not as often as I would if I were trying to 2-putt.

[Ty_Webb]

23 hours ago, Shindig said:

Can you elaborate on this?  There's a par-4 hole at the course I've played the most (was my home course for over a decade, now 50 miles away but I still go and play there) whose green is below the fairway and I realized recently it's one of three holes on the course I've never made birdie, despite that I often have a short iron into the green for my second shot.  It isn't even that I haven't made birdie, but I realize I often don't hit the green.  My typical play of the hole is to have a near-GIR and sometimes I get up and down, but not as often as I would if I were trying to 2-putt.

Where do you tend to miss it? When the green is below you, the ball is spending more time in the air, so to the extent that side spin is making it move one way or the other, it has more time to do that and therefore will be affected more. That's why it's so dang hard to hit a fairway that's a long way below you. When the ground gets in the way it stops the slice/hook spin from moving the ball away from the middle. If you play, let's say, a fade, then you want to aim further to the left to allow the fade to move the ball further. That also means if you play for a fade and don't hit a fade you're going to miss by more than you would if the green was at the same level. 

I think the person who brought this up is trying to limit the impact of that by hitting it lower so the ball doesn't spend as much time in the air. If that's not how you normally hit it and you haven't practiced it, then it's likely going to be more detrimental than just figuring out how to deal with your normal shot. 

[Shindig]

8 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Where do you tend to miss it? When the green is below you, the ball is spending more time in the air, so to the extent that side spin is making it move one way or the other, it has more time to do that and therefore will be affected more. That's why it's so dang hard to hit a fairway that's a long way below you. When the ground gets in the way it stops the slice/hook spin from moving the ball away from the middle. If you play, let's say, a fade, then you want to aim further to the left to allow the fade to move the ball further. That also means if you play for a fade and don't hit a fade you're going to miss by more than you would if the green was at the same level. 

I think the person who brought this up is trying to limit the impact of that by hitting it lower so the ball doesn't spend as much time in the air. If that's not how you normally hit it and you haven't practiced it, then it's likely going to be more detrimental than just figuring out how to deal with your normal shot. 

That's a good question;  I think I need to review my last several rounds and see where I tend to miss it.  I can recollect my last time there, I missed left, but that's because I remember where I nearly chipped in from.

The thing is, my "default" trouble shots are low shots I can hit with a 7-iron for about 80 yards, a 5-iron for about 100, or a 4-hybrid for about 130, at least without elevation changes.  Now I wonder if I'm, say, 120 yards out from that green, if a low 5-iron that I'd otherwise use to advance the ball when I have a tree to stay under would work.  I have a casual round with some friends at that course this weekend, maybe I'll try that shot with an extra ball (I wouldn't try that during a tournament, of course, but a casual round I think it's okay to hit an occasional extra "I wonder what happens if" ball if I can do so without holding up play). 

That having been said, I am going to have to allow for more draw or fade than before, and that makes sense.  I think I miss the green more left or right than short or long.

Thank you!

[Shindig]

I played this course yesterday (casual friendly round, not a tournament) with friends.  I told my playing partners up front I was going to try a second approach shot on #7, the hole I was describing.  

I hit my tee shot to where I had 130 or so yards to the green from the fairway (per ShotScope GPS and also laser to a pin near the middle).  There was a decent wind in my face.

If we hadn't had this conversation, I would have hit 7-iron (140 yard average under calm and flat conditions).   I played that shot, full normal swing, hit the green 24' short of the pin, made an easy two putt for a par.  

My second attempt at the approach shot (which I hit right after my main one) was a 5-iron, using the swing I usually use to hit a 100-yard low shot (I'm not sure if it qualifies as a punch shot) where I'm trying to hit it straight and low, such as if I'm behind trees and attempting a recovery-and-advance.  I hit it decently well and the ball finished at the back of the green. 

Incidentally, I've recently started a notebook for this course.  Somehow I don't have a lot written down despite having played this course semi-regularly for almost two decades (minus the times I'm not playing golf, of course).  I added that to my notes for this particular hole.  Next few casual rounds there, I think I'm going to hit an additional approach to that green with different clubs on the low shot and take notes.  It's a small sample size but it seems worth knowing instead of having to guess during an important round.

As my handicap edges closer to single digits, I think it's good to have shots like this in the repertoire -- not only mechanically, but knowing situationally what I can do.  I recognize that the really good players tend to hit their stock shot on the vast majority of occasions, and I'm not about to try to shoehorn in punch shots everywhere, but knowing options into the wind and/or to a lowered green beyond "take more (or less) club" seems like a good thing.