Pace of play scenario

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Sigh.

This...

CDA - the next time you play as a single and the course is packed with non-stop 4-somes, ask the pro shop if they would want every 4-some to let you play through. Their answer should tell you what's best for the overall pace of play on the course...

But they wouldn't know because they only work at the golf course.

[RickK]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Maybe I'm not being clear. I was making no comment on being let through or not. I don't think a single should be let through a wall of foursomes. I was just saying the scenario of having a single stuck behind a wall of foursomes is not that bizarre.

I agree.  Personally, if I am playing as a single, playing thru one group or two in a single round might be ok.  But, I have no interest of playing thru a group only to hit a wall and then end up playing thru them then this happening all over again.  To me, that is no fun.  I would feel rushed and that makes it worse.  I usually hope to find a group of 2 or 3 guys and I have no issues asking them if they mind if I join them.  And, if a single is coming up behind a group I am in and there is no where for him to go ahead of us...if we have room, I am going to tell him you can wait, or join us.

I have seen the comment on scorecards about letting "faster players" play thru but having been around golf for a long time that means if there is somewhere for them to go.  If my group is waiting on the tee box on every hole, a single who has caught up to us because the group behind us let him play thru is not playing any faster than we are, especially if the group he played thru has been waiting on the tee box for us while we are waiting on the tee box or fairway for the group ahead of us.  Yes, a single can play faster than a group of 4 but he is not a "faster player" necessarily than any one of the 4some he has caught up .

[cda77]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

This...

CDA - the next time you play as a single and the course is packed with non-stop 4-somes, ask the pro shop if they would want every 4-some to let you play through. Their answer should tell you what's best for the overall pace of play on the course...

The pro shop will say they should let me play through.  It only costs each group the specific time it takes me to play through them, 3-5 minutes, nothing more. The time does not accumulate.  I have and do play as a single often and zip right through group after group and thankfully at courses where people let faster players play through.

[cda77]

Originally Posted by RickK

Personally, if I am playing as a single, playing thru one group or two in a single round might be ok.  But, I have no interest of playing thru a group only to hit a wall and then end up playing thru them then this happening all over again.  To me, that is no fun.  I would feel rushed and that makes it worse.  I usually hope to find a group of 2 or 3 guys and I have no issues asking them if they mind if I join them.  And, if a single is coming up behind a group I am in and there is no where for him to go ahead of us...if we have room, I am going to tell him you can wait, or join us.

I have seen the comment on scorecards about letting faster players play thru but having been around golf for a long time that means if there is somewhere for them to go.  If my group is waiting on the tee box on every hole, a single who has caught up to us because he play thru the last group is not playing any faster than we are.  The group he played thru was waiting on us before than just as we are waiting on the group ahead of us.

For your first paragraph, that is your personal choice.

For your second paragraph, you are speculating.  That single can get through your group and the next 10 groups and be off to the races.  Forget all that, let me ask you this.  What would it cost you to let the single play through?  If they get stuck in front of you, what did it really cost you??  Half a hole, 5 minutes. But if each subsequent group follows the rule, (it's a rule not a comment) that single is not being held up and it costs you 3-5 minutes.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Sigh.

This...

CDA - the next time you play as a single and the course is packed with non-stop 4-somes, ask the pro shop if they would want every 4-some to let you play through. Their answer should tell you what's best for the overall pace of play on the course...

Yep. The first group you play through loses 5 minutes while you do so (cda's own estimate).  The next group you play through loses 5 minutes, and the first group loses another 5 minutes since the group in front of them is now another 5 minutes off the pace. The third group you play through loses 5 minutes, the second group loses 10, and the first group loses 15. Etc. For each group on the course when you started playing through, their round is ( ( (19 - (# of the hole they started on)) * 5 ) minutes longer than it would've otherwise been. And each group that starts playing after you has a round that is a flat (18*5) or 90 minutes slower than otherwise.

This is why a foursome first thing in the morning can play the course in 2.5 hours, but by the end of the day it's a 4.5 hour round. It's not always just one or two slow groups. It's all the "letting through" that the one or two slow groups do, instead of picking up the pace as they should be doing.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by cda77

The pro shop will say they should let me play through.  It only costs each group the specific time it takes me to play through them, 3-5 minutes, nothing more. The time does not accumulate.  I have and do play as a single often and zip right through group after group and thankfully at courses where people let faster players play through.

I have never seen this situation come up at my course because they would never let a single go out if the course were crowded.  They would make them get with a 3-some or 4-some if they wanted to play.  If the course was pretty slow then they would let a single out but then you wouldn't have the problem of needing to play through group after group.

[cda77]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

But they wouldn't know because they only work at the golf course.

You have the nerve to call me smug.  How many courses have I worked at?  How many have I managed?  You do not know, do you.

[RickK]

Originally Posted by cda77

The pro shop will say they should let me play through.  It only costs each group the specific time it takes me to play through them, 3-5 minutes, nothing more. The time does not accumulate.  I have and do play as a single often and zip right through group after group and thankfully at courses where people let faster players play through.

I have to disagree with the time not accumulating.  You play thru my group, we wait 3 to 5 minutes.  Then you play thru the group ahead of mine, they have to wait on you 3 to 5 minutes.  We will catch up to them and they will be waiting on you.  And, I can tell you the pro shops I am familiar with will disagree with you.  Again, speaking of a packed golf course playing at the recommended pace. So, I am sure we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

[cda77]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yep. The first group you play through loses 5 minutes while you do so (cda's own estimate).  The next group you play through loses 5 minutes, and the first group loses another 5 minutes since the group in front of them is now another 5 minutes off the pace. The third group you play through loses 5 minutes, the second group loses 10, and the first group loses 15. Etc. For each group on the course when you started playing through, their round is ( (19 - (# of the hole they started on)) * 5 ) minutes longer than it would've otherwise been. And each group that starts playing after you has a round that is a flat (18*5) or 90 minutes slower than otherwise.

This is why a foursome first thing in the morning can play the course in 2.5 hours, but by the end of the day it's a 4.5 hour round. It's not always just one or two slow groups. It's all the "letting through" that the one or two slow groups do, instead of picking up the pace as they should be doing.

NO, they do not, the time does not accumulate.  I am a single and meet up with your foursome on a tee box.  The foursome in front of you just hit their approach shots and are heading to the green.  You let me go through.  I hit go to my ball, wait for the foursome to clear the green and I am gone, you will never see me again. (assuming all groups ahead follow the rule)  By the time you get to your tee shots, you have lost 5 minutes.  In the mean time, I am on the next tee playing through the next group in the same manner.  By the time you finsh your hole and onto the next tee, I am long gone and the group in front of you is in the fairway hitting their next shots.

[cda77]

Originally Posted by RickK

I have to disagree with the time not accumulating.  You play thru my group, we wait 3 to 5 minutes.  Then you play thru the group ahead of mine, they have to wait on you 3 to 5 minutes.  We will catch up to them and they will be waiting on you.  And, I can tell you the pro shops I am familiar with will disagree with you.  Again, speaking of a packed golf course playing at the recommended pace. So, I am sure we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

And that is fine, I don't have any problem agreeing to disagree.  But from experience, I can tell you the time does not accumulate, as you can see in another one of my posts.  I zip right through and only cost each group a couple of minutes.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by cda77

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yep. The first group you play through loses 5 minutes while you do so (cda's own estimate).  The next group you play through loses 5 minutes, and the first group loses another 5 minutes since the group in front of them is now another 5 minutes off the pace. The third group you play through loses 5 minutes, the second group loses 10, and the first group loses 15. Etc. For each group on the course when you started playing through, their round is ( (19 - (# of the hole they started on)) * 5 ) minutes longer than it would've otherwise been. And each group that starts playing after you has a round that is a flat (18*5) or 90 minutes slower than otherwise.

This is why a foursome first thing in the morning can play the course in 2.5 hours, but by the end of the day it's a 4.5 hour round. It's not always just one or two slow groups. It's all the "letting through" that the one or two slow groups do, instead of picking up the pace as they should be doing.

NO, they do not, the time does not accumulate.  I am a single and meet up with your foursome on a tee box.  The foursome in front of you just hit their approach shots and are heading to the green.  You let me go through.  I hit go to my ball, wait for the foursome to clear the green and I am gone, you will never see me again. (assuming all groups ahead follow the rule)  By the time you get to your tee shots, you have lost 5 minutes.  In the mean time, I am on the next tee playing through the next group in the same manner.  By the time you finsh your hole and onto the next tee, I am long gone and the group in front of you is in the fairway hitting their next shots.

So you alone of the entire Sandtrap Forum is right, the rest of us are idiots for not realizing that?  Hope you have a good life in Indianapolis.  Just don't bring your weird ideas to Denver.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by cda77

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yep. The first group you play through loses 5 minutes while you do so (cda's own estimate).  The next group you play through loses 5 minutes, and the first group loses another 5 minutes since the group in front of them is now another 5 minutes off the pace. The third group you play through loses 5 minutes, the second group loses 10, and the first group loses 15. Etc. For each group on the course when you started playing through, their round is ( (19 - (# of the hole they started on)) * 5 ) minutes longer than it would've otherwise been. And each group that starts playing after you has a round that is a flat (18*5) or 90 minutes slower than otherwise.

This is why a foursome first thing in the morning can play the course in 2.5 hours, but by the end of the day it's a 4.5 hour round. It's not always just one or two slow groups. It's all the "letting through" that the one or two slow groups do, instead of picking up the pace as they should be doing.

NO, they do not, the time does not accumulate.  I am a single and meet up with your foursome on a tee box.  The foursome in front of you just hit their approach shots and are heading to the green.  You let me go through.  I hit go to my ball, wait for the foursome to clear the green and I am gone, you will never see me again. (assuming all groups ahead follow the rule)  By the time you get to your tee shots, you have lost 5 minutes.  In the mean time, I am on the next tee playing through the next group in the same manner.  By the time you finsh your hole and onto the next tee, I am long gone and the group in front of you is in the fairway hitting their next shots.

Yes, and that group is now waiting for YOU to hit your next shot, because you're waiting for the next group you are about to play through to hit THEIR shots (or clear the green), so my group is now waiting longer on the group in front of us than we would otherwise have been, even though you've already cost us 5 minutes.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

But they wouldn't know because they only work at the golf course.

If I recall correctly, in the thread about the "While We're Young" campaign you argued for this campaign because you said many times slow play is due to ignorance rather than stupidity and raising awareness would help this.

I'm curious if this thread has made you re-think that?

[cda77]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yes, and that group is now waiting for YOU to hit your next shot, because you're waiting for the next group you are about to play through to hit THEIR shots (or clear the green), so my group is now waiting longer on the group in front of me than I would otherwise have been.

No you aren't  5 of us are on the tee box.  We can all 5 hit or just let me hit.  So just I hit.  Assume I am a decent player, how long does it take me to get to my ball?  2 minutes?  Now I wait for the group to clear the green.  Another 3 minutes??  I hit, I am gone you never see me again.  By the time you hit your tees shots and clear that hole you will come up to the next tee in time to tee off.  No or little waiting and I am long gone.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Lash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

But they wouldn't know because they only work at the golf course.

If I recall correctly, in the thread about the "While We're Young" campaign you argued for this campaign because you said many times slow play is due to ignorance rather than stupidity and raising awareness would help this.

I'm curious if this thread has made you re-think that?

There's an exception to every rule.

But I don't think anyone in this thread is stupid - just stubborn. (And I include myself in that category.)

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by cda77

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yes, and that group is now waiting for YOU to hit your next shot, because you're waiting for the next group you are about to play through to hit THEIR shots (or clear the green), so my group is now waiting longer on the group in front of me than I would otherwise have been.

No you aren't  5 of us are on the tee box.  We can all 5 hit or just let me hit.  So just I hit.  Assume I am a decent player, how long does it take me to get to my ball?  2 minutes?  Now I wait for the group to clear the green.  Another 3 minutes??  I hit, I am gone you never see me again.  By the time you hit your tees shots and clear that hole you will come up to the next tee in time to tee off.  No or little waiting and I am long gone.

You're not saying anything new. No matter how you slice it, whether you all hit off the tee or not, at some point the group has to let you go on ahead. That's five minutes you've added to their round, and as we've explained, it *is* cumulative.

[Lash]

I'm just joking really. But those were the two choices in that thread, and the thought made me laugh.

Actually, if you slice it that probably adds another 2-3 minutes looking for your ball. ;-)

[cda77]

Originally Posted by Lash

But you take this phrase and assume that any faster player has the right of way, but I don't think that is the intent. You really should think of it the other way around, slower players letting others go through. Just because someone behind you is flying through, doesn't mean you have to get out of their way. If you are keeping up with the group ahead of you, that is all you can do. You are playing as fast as possible for you, so there is no "faster player."

I disagree.  Sorry.  The rule states faster players to play through.  Doesn't state anything about keeping pace with the group in front of you.  Speed is relative and if left to someone else to judge, it doesn't work.  To me a 4 hour round might be way off pace and slow, to you it might be extremely fast or comfortable  So if I come upon your group, your thought is hey we are playing fast, no reason to let him play through.  That's not the intent of the rule.