Old wilsons help... And club choice help...

[lawrosa]

Hello all. First post but I am lost...

First off I have been playing golf for 30 + years... I never broke 80.. Best round was an 80... I play every Sunday.

I have only had 3 sets of clubs in this 30 years of playing. My first set I learned on was a 1972-1974 Walter Hagen players set... I hit these reasonably well but I was a lot younger then.... I played with them for 15 years from 1980 to 1995...

My grandfather bought me a set of Wilson's in 1995... I cant find any info on these clubs. My best round this year with them was a 84. Here is a pic of them. They are 17-4 SS with Brunswick head speed shafts... No rating I can find as the labels are worn off. I hit them good and always had a thin top line... Are these worth still playing. Even though they are 18 years old they have minimal wear as I believe because of the 17-4 SS that they are made of...

Sweet spot is like butter. Mis hits resonate up the shaft. Its a hard hit but lots of feel...

Here they are...showing 4 iron. I have 3 -PW

Now since I was reading all the hype on new technology I went out and researched clubs... Not a lot of money since I am a stay at home dad at 47 years old...LOL

So I researched callaway and found the older x 14's to be the most popular...Though they were game improvement but I think they are super gamers or ultras... Anyway IMO these new clubs suck. I got them in new condition for $180 out the door on used callaway site.. There is no feel to them.. Just a click and off it goes. Plus I cant control really. left, right, straight.. No consistency.. Plus I just cant get over the fat top line... No feel etc.. Shafts are constant weight uniflex... I think I am going to sell them...

The thing is too what I found is the bounce may be way different then what the Wilson's have...This may be why I cant hit them... Will it take time to get used to them?

Here is the top line...compared to wilsons

Its just a big fat clunky club...

So here is my thinking...

I don't know what the Hagen's were made of but I assume I like the hard feel. 17-4 may be hard but I read better ball compression. So I am used to that with the Wilson's... I don't see many who make 17-4 SS but ping. Does Wilson still make 17-4?

I think shafts are important. The uni flexes are not working IMO. I swing 90 mph or less.

Also the wilsons are high lofts.. I only hit 5 iron 150 yards. But that 150 yards it right on every time...Plus they stop on a dime. The callaways could fly or roll 10 yars after it hits the green.

I also need the offset and I think the Wilson's have that. I come outside in and have a normal fade. I have been doing it all my life... Can only draw the driver if needed but play the fade... Hey I know where its going...LOL

I would like to upgrade but am having trouble finding something  if you know what I mean.. Some tell me these old Wilson's are good sticks. Others laugh that I still play with them. But when I shoot an 84 to another guys 90 with $1000 forged crap I laugh all the way to the 19 th hole...

So I am sorry this was long winded and if anyone can shed light on these Wilson's I will appreciate it... I was looking for some MPF on them but to no avail... I cant even find a used set of these anywhere on line. My grandfather is 97 years old now and all he remembers is he bought them from the commissary from fort Dix here in NJ...back in 1995 I think... Could be up to 2000 I cant remember... All I remember I retired the Hagen's for these.

Oh since I switched clubs for the x 14's my game went to crap... shooting 96,96,96,97 the past 4 times out...

Any help or suggestions????

[dbuck]

Except for the topline, those Wilsons remind me of PING Zings from the early 90's. The Zings have a fairly strong loft for the era, 27* 5 iron, but not as strong as todays GI and SGI irons which can run 24-25* for the 5 iron. You seem to be interested in finding some used clubs; the Titleist DCI Gold from the early 90's has some offset and a 28* 5 iron and you should be able to find some on ebay or other sources for less than $200. Of course there are more modern offerings to be had in the $350 range. If you can get to one of the major retailers like Golfsmith or Golf Galaxy that carry used clubs and have a hitting bay, you might find something you like in the price range you want. The world is your oyster; don't limit yourself to a brand or type of club.

[lawrosa]

IDK.. I see no real difference in the shape of the cavity back per club... They all look the same...

For 17 years wear is minimal... I am just trying to understand the design and which way I should go from these... Apparently the callaway x 14's are not the direction...

I assume this is perimeter weghting.... Again I am not a clob specialist.. I only had blades and these...

I think I am looking for something without a face insert... These are cast???? IDK just says 17-4 ss on the hosel.

I found this. It would seem these are professional? Were these irons made before wilson really went to crap?

http://www.golfinstruction.com/features/pinemeadow-metal-test-870.htm

17-4 and 15-5 Stainless Steel are harder steels found in professional style iron and wood heads. It is less common in iron heads, but popular material for woods. While the harder material will decrease the soft feel found in 431, it makes up for it by creating better ball compression and essentially generating better distance.

Here is better angles on the backs and faces...

[lawrosa]

Geez these look similar in design shape wise.... I never hit forged... How hard could they be to hit compared to the wilsons??? Looks like the same type shape with the notch on the bottom, although my wilsons have a larger notch.

I think this whole game improvement thing is hog wash and any cavity back is game improvement...

I ican find older forged callaways like new 2009 set for $500.

But I see there is a wilson forged... I will have to research older models as price is an issue.... But I need to hit these somewhere or somehow.... I actually like the wilson look better... Probably because I grew up in the hagen/wilson dyna era.....Maybe I need to get that out of my head.... Still reseaching... Anyone have any ideas please respond... Possibly I am being anal....LOL

[Dave40]

The forged clubs you are looking at will have a smaller head size than your Wilson ProStaffs.  The Wilson Ci series will be similar in head size.  The Ci series also has lots of feedback so you would be able to tell if you hit it off center.  At least that is my experience with Ci6 and Ci7 irons.

I'm not sure if different irons will help you break 80 or not.  If you like the offset the newer forged clubs have little or no offset and might turn your fade into a full slice.

That being said, if you are hitting the ProStaffs well, then stick with them.  Just keep fresh grips on them.  Drivers are the clubs where most of the technology advances have been made.

[lawrosa]

I went to dicks sporting goods and hit the forged irons they had there... The callaway x forged, ping 56 and the ping anser.. All in all I hit the callaway the best... I dont understand the maltby factor. They list it as a 373 on his scale... Noway...I hit that good and consistant sweet spot...I think the mpf is a crok... Just my opinion...

If you like the offset the newer forged clubs have little or no offset and might turn your fade into a full slice.

I actually hit all the shots left of the center line on the shot screen...Could not tell if fade.. I think they started left and faded slighly but none ever crossed right of the line. The simulator look like this one.

With the 6 iron x forged my launch angle was 18 degrees or so... A few 20's and such. I would say out of 40 shots..( And I was sweating towards the end) 30 were all good hits at the 160 yard mark give or take 5 yards... Bad hits for me were usually thin but still got 140 yards... The otheres were duffs hitting way before the ball... those few went 100 yards or so... A quick regrip/choke up a little fixed that fast...

And what I was happy to see was the dispersion tracks when I was done had good grouping... Like this pic... Best I can find to explain what I mean...

My problem is I dont have $1300 bucks for the x forged... They show as a conventional club in the MPF... The previous years show as a GI...

So know what to find out there...IDK...

Still researching....

Oh and here is the MPF chart on how easy a club it to hit... I think its a crock of crap IMO..

http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/2011MPFRatingsChart.pdf

[lawrosa]

Oh and here is the 1996 staff mid size came out same time about my Wilson set.. Compare....

These RM's have a MPF of 387... ( Means hard to hit???? LOL) Its like a shovel... how can you not hit it... ha ha....

And here is the x31 tour from 2000... Mine were from around 1995 to 2000.. I can remember when I got them... These x 31's have a MPF of 320...

So with my set of Wilson's and the 17-4 steel would we consider it a type of players clubs???? IDK...

No body commented on the Brunswick head speed shafts .. I cant find any info on that...

[dbuck]

Over the years, "players iron" features have been incorporated into game improvement irons, and yes, some game improvement features have been incorporated into players irons. Game improvement features don't necessarily make a club easier to hit, they attempt to mitigate the effects of a less than perfect pass at the ball. The simplest at least in appearance is the cavity back. This simply redistributes the weight of a club so that a strike further away from the sweet spot loses less in distance and direction. This has been refined over the years so that the cavity is not the same shape or size from club to club, and even some "players sets" have cavities in long to middle irons and muscleback blades or shallower cavities in the middle to lower irons. "Easy to hit" really means reduced penalty for less than perfcect strikes. Any given player may have an affinity for any given club which results in increased confidence at address. You are on the right track by trying different clubs to see which gives you the best result. If your desire is to spend less, you can often find the same model lightly used and near your specs, or wait until next year and this year's model will usually be less.

[dbuck]

I am not a shaft expert, but generally speaking, there are shafts for the masses and shafts that are tailored to the player. Two factors affect the shafts used in off the rack sets, and especially middle and lower priced sets. Those two factors are cost and playability by the masses. Playability by the masses generally means shafts that are softer and easier to get airborne. Lower cost means a shaft with less options and less player specific features. In other words, they achieve economies of scale by making a bunch of them just alike. It doesn't mean they are bad shafts-I have a few of these basic shafts in some irons that work fine for me. The more tailored shafts are designed to produce desired launch and ball flight, and to work with specific swing speed ranges. Most average golfers need help getting the ball in the air; most pros need shafts tailored to help produce a more boring trajectory. That is not to say you need the same shaft as most average golfers, or that you couldn't use some of the shafts that some pros use. That is why what you are doing is good--finding the combination of clubhead and shaft that gets the best results for you.

[lawrosa]

I am removing all grips today off the Wilson pro staffs... ( Dicks sporting goods has free grip install day on Saturday)

Ironically I found a s/n on the 3 iron.. Anyway to find info with this?

I assume with these #'s this set is 1999..

L071499201??0   0.00"

I think those two missing #'s are 00... Good think I wrote it down because using water and sponge the # came off... I am up to the 7 iron now with no other #'s so far...

Again Brunswick head speed shafts...

Anyone?

[lawrosa]

Corrected s/n wilson # L371499201DC0

I guess I could call wilson... I think they have an online chat....

Maybe its a ladies club.... The L?????LOL....Probably why I play good with them....