Knuckle/Power Fade Experiences

[camforreal]

Going to the range today to begin my quest to master the knuckle fade/power fade. Played with a guy in high school who used to play it and I have always wanted to play it.

Not really asking for a breakdown on how to do it. I think I have the general idea figured out and I realize it is going to probably take a good bit of work to master.

Just wondering if any of you that play it could share your experiences with it. Is it really as great as it sounds? It appears to be a major weapon at your disposal if you can ever master it. Or please share any secret tips you might have outside of:

-Aim your body where you want it to start.

-Open the face to a point between your aiming point and the target.

-Come at the ball from the inside like you are trying to draw it.

-Try to really turn your body left and pull the club back inside and to the left.

-Use a firm grip to try to keep your hands from releasing the club.

-Basically feel like you are about to smash it left.

-Possibly weaken the grip some. (I have seen some conflicting opinions on this.)

Thanks guys!

[kw purp]

Nothing like a good 4 knuckle power shank

[mdl]

Power fade off the tee is indeed a great shot.  My natural swing tends towards a fade, so when I playing well off the tee the power fade is my shot.  I tend to get a fade even with a stance square to the line, but I have at times gone with the traditional Nicklaus style you're describing, opening the stance then trying to swing from the inside relative to my stance but still from the outside a bit relative to the target line.  And of course you're right on in terms of the real ball flight laws in that if your want to play a pull fade that starts left of the target and then bends right you need a swing path to the left of the target but a face at impact also left of the target but not as far left as your swing path.

One thing I'll note on your list of mechanical to-dos is that I disagree with " Try to really turn your body left and pull the club back inside and to the left".  For me at least, if I try to actively pull the swing path left, in general I'll end up either with a wicked slice or a bombed huge pull that can bend either way or go straight.  Very inconsistent move for me at least.

I'd recommend exactly the setup you describe but then just think about hitting a straight shot along the line pointed on by your face at setup.  If you get the face back to that same angle at impact, the open stance will naturally pull your swing path a little left and you should hit a fade that starts where you lined up your face and fades back right.

Also, don't be married to the firmer grip than normal.  I find that leads to inconsistency for me too.  My natural struggle is to close the face enough, so in general if I go with the setup you describe and swing naturally I'll hit a shot that starts somewhere between the face line and the target line and fades.  If you more naturally close the face and struggle with this setup to not hit a straight pull (relative to your target), I prefer the swing thought of trying to come through impact keeping the hands low and in front of the club face a little longer past impact.  That's one swing thought I use when I need a hard fade instead of my natural regular fade to escape trouble or whatever.

If that doesn't work for you, I'd personally also prefer weakening the grip slightly instead of going with a death grip on the handle.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by camforreal

Going to the range today to begin my quest to master the knuckle fade/power fade. Played with a guy in high school who used to play it and I have always wanted to play it.

Not really asking for a breakdown on how to do it. I think I have the general idea figured out and I realize it is going to probably take a good bit of work to master.

Just wondering if any of you that play it could share your experiences with it. Is it really as great as it sounds? It appears to be a major weapon at your disposal if you can ever master it. Or please share any secret tips you might have outside of:

-Aim your body where you want it to start.

-Open the face to a point between your aiming point and the target.

-Come at the ball from the inside like you are trying to draw it.

-Try to really turn your body left and pull the club back inside and to the left.

-Use a firm grip to try to keep your hands from releasing the club.

-Basically feel like you are about to smash it left.

-Possibly weaken the grip some. (I have seen some conflicting opinions on this.)

Thanks guys!

Do me a favor, go to the search bar, type in ball flight laws, educate yourself.

[kw purp]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Do me a favor, go to the search bar, type in ball flight laws, educate yourself.

the ball flight laws changed my life. Once I read about the ball flight laws I went from a 32 handicap down to a +2. If not for the ball flight laws I would be dead or in jail right now

[camforreal]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Do me a favor, go to the search bar, type in ball flight laws, educate yourself.

I have read it already. If your body and clubface are both open and you come from inside to inside but leave the face open slightly would your club face not be slightly pointed left (starting the ball slightly left) and the relation of the path to the face angle would still be slightly outside to in even though you came from the inside (causing left to right spin.) Am I missing something saevel?

[camforreal]

Originally Posted by mdl

Power fade off the tee is indeed a great shot.  My natural swing tends towards a fade, so when I playing well off the tee the power fade is my shot.  I tend to get a fade even with a stance square to the line, but I have at times gone with the traditional Nicklaus style you're describing, opening the stance then trying to swing from the inside relative to my stance but still from the outside a bit relative to the target line.  And of course you're right on in terms of the real ball flight laws in that if your want to play a pull fade that starts left of the target and then bends right you need a swing path to the left of the target but a face at impact also left of the target but not as far left as your swing path.

One thing I'll note on your list of mechanical to-dos is that I disagree with "Try to really turn your body left and pull the club back inside and to the left".  For me at least, if I try to actively pull the swing path left, in general I'll end up either with a wicked slice or a bombed huge pull that can bend either way or go straight.  Very inconsistent move for me at least.

I'd recommend exactly the setup you describe but then just think about hitting a straight shot along the line pointed on by your face at setup.  If you get the face back to that same angle at impact, the open stance will naturally pull your swing path a little left and you should hit a fade that starts where you lined up your face and fades back right.

Also, don't be married to the firmer grip than normal.  I find that leads to inconsistency for me too.  My natural struggle is to close the face enough, so in general if I go with the setup you describe and swing naturally I'll hit a shot that starts somewhere between the face line and the target line and fades.  If you more naturally close the face and struggle with this setup to not hit a straight pull (relative to your target), I prefer the swing thought of trying to come through impact keeping the hands low and in front of the club face a little longer past impact.  That's one swing thought I use when I need a hard fade instead of my natural regular fade to escape trouble or whatever.

If that doesn't work for you, I'd personally also prefer weakening the grip slightly instead of going with a death grip on the handle.

Thanks for the great comment mdl. I am going to try to implement it this afternoon after work. Hopefully I will get some good results. I will play around with the grip some and see if I can find something that works.

[saevel25]

Quote:

Aim your body where you want it to start.

-Open the face to a point between your aiming point and the target.

-Come at the ball from the inside like you are trying to draw it.

-Try to really turn your body left and pull the club back inside and to the left.

-Use a firm grip to try to keep your hands from releasing the club.

-Basically feel like you are about to smash it left.

-Possibly weaken the grip some. (I have seen some conflicting opinions on this.)

Though you got the aim down, you wrote the description bad.

1) You aim the clubface were you want the ball to start.

Also, don't start listing how the swing should feel. That is totally independent of whats happening. You say swing from the inside, then you say feel like your turning your body left, and pull the club back inside. These are counter productive right? Also, what you describe might not actually be happening at all. As its been said, Feel isn't real. what's real is what is visable through someone elses eye's or a camera. If it works for you fine.

But if you want to hit a power fade. Not sure the difference between a power fade and a normal fade? Maybe its just a fade that goes longer. which would be a slight pull fade, which would be similar to a push draw only slighly lower in trajectory, and goes with a fade spin.

So to hit a pull fade, you want the clubhead to come slightly from the outside in, and you want the clubface angle less than the path angle, but not open to the target line, so slightly closed.

If you want to hit a push fade, swing to the outside, clubface would be more open than the swing path. So the ball would start right and fade right.

Straight fade would be a very slight outside to in path, with a face square to the target line, this would produce a fade that starts straight and fades away slightly

so which is a power fade?, not sure. But, i would say, always aim the club were you want the ball to start off. From there its how you swing that determines the curve.

[camforreal]

If my understanding is correct a "Power Fade" or "Knuckle Fade" is basically trying to hit a draw with the face open but instead of doing it accidentally you have aimed left and anticipated it. There is no over the top move involved like there is with a normal fade or slice. The inside move is what makes it go as farther. Basically like getting the distance from a draw with the control of a fade. Mdl pretty much summed it up.

[camforreal]

I like the control I get from my fade but it only goes like 255-260 and I like the distance from my draw (280-290.) It's like a hybrid of the two.

[camforreal]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Though you got the aim down, you wrote the description bad.

1) You aim the clubface were you want the ball to start.

Also, don't start listing how the swing should feel. That is totally independent of whats happening. You say swing from the inside, then you say feel like your turning your body left, and pull the club back inside. These are counter productive right? Also, what you describe might not actually be happening at all. As its been said, Feel isn't real. what's real is what is visable through someone elses eye's or a camera. If it works for you fine.

But if you want to hit a power fade. Not sure the difference between a power fade and a normal fade? Maybe its just a fade that goes longer. which would be a slight pull fade, which would be similar to a push draw only slighly lower in trajectory, and goes with a fade spin.

So to hit a pull fade, you want the clubhead to come slightly from the outside in, and you want the clubface angle less than the path angle, but not open to the target line, so slightly closed.

If you want to hit a push fade, swing to the outside, clubface would be more open than the swing path. So the ball would start right and fade right.

Straight fade would be a very slight outside to in path, with a face square to the target line, this would produce a fade that starts straight and fades away slightly

so which is a power fade?, not sure. But, i would say, always aim the club were you want the ball to start off. From there its how you swing that determines the curve.

Here saevel read this. This is what I am talking about. Totally different than a normal over the top type of fade.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-10/flick-nicklaus-fade

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by camforreal

If my understanding is correct a "Power Fade" or "Knuckle Fade" is basically trying to hit a draw with the face open but instead of doing it accidentally you have aimed left and anticipated it. There is no over the top move involved like there is with a normal fade or slice. The inside move is what makes it go as farther. Basically like getting the distance from a draw with the control of a fade. Mdl pretty much summed it up.

So basically its a straight fade to a slight push fade.

[camforreal]

It's hitting a fade with a draw swing pretty much

[kw purp]

Originally Posted by camforreal

It's hitting a fade with a draw swing pretty much

this completely contradicts ball flight laws, you are some kind of an abomination.

[camforreal]

It's like aiming left and hitting a block that goes down the middle. I don't see the big deal here lol

[TourSpoon]

It's a push fade, so basically it has the elements of inside out, full release, with a face slightly open relative to the path at impact. If you have decent length, this is a great shot to hit. Ala Jack and Tiger, all day long.

[camforreal]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

It's a push fade, so basically it has the elements of inside out, full release, with a face slightly open relative to the path at impact. If you have decent length, this is a great shot to hit. Ala Jack and Tiger, all day long.

Finally someone said it eloquently lol. Thanks man

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

It's a push fade, so basically it has the elements of inside out, full release, with a face slightly open relative to the path at impact. If you have decent length, this is a great shot to hit. Ala Jack and Tiger, all day long.

1) release is a bad term. If its what you feel, have at it. For me, i don't feel like i release. The club just does what it does. The only time i want to release is if i want to hit a hook.

Yes a push fade is a inside out path, with a face angle slightly open to the path. There's a few ways to hit this shot, probably the easiest would be to put the ball slightly back in the stance than normal, and open the clubface, and swing normal. This will put the ball on the inside arc of the path, and opening the clubface will allow you to hit a fade. Since the ball is back, you will hit slightly down on it, which will loose a tad more distance than if you hit up on the driver.