Help Me Analyze of Downswing Positions

[JayFore]

I can get to a proper backswing, but I am trying to get a feel for the correct downswing and follow through. It helps me to think of the positions (and specific hip, shoulder, hand, etc. positioning) and the motion required to get from one to the next.

A4. Top of Backswing: This is when the hip drive begins. Here I feel as if I sink and drive my hips forward. I think of it as a quick one-two count. The one as the final movement of the backswing, and two is the feeling of loading weight down over left foot, readying the slide.

A5: From all the pictures I've see, you want your hips shifted laterally over the front foot AND the hips to be square at this position. However, when you start driving your hips laterally... there are two options to get to this position. 1. You can keep your hip angle closed and shift. I saw a video in this thread that depicted a wall behind you. To take that image, at A4, your back right pocket will be against the wall but not your left (i.e. closed). You can shift laterally while keeping your back right pocket on this wall and keeping your left pocket off. However, this feels a bit awkward (and exaggerated perhaps). It is difficult to then, after this lateral movement, rotate your hips square, with your left back pocket on the wall. You could instead: 2. Slide hips laterally WHILE squaring your hips. Not a rotation. Simply synchronizing the lateral shift of the hips and the squaring of your hips (both back pockets against wall)... to avoid the awkward cocked feeling when you laterally shift your hips but leave the closed angle. I feel as if the second option feels more natural, but I am only a beginner so want to make sure. I feel as if watching swings, I've seen both methods done. I want to know what is proper though.

Also, to confirm, if that truly is the correct A5 position, then once hips are shifted and square, I would want my arms to be parallel with the front, wrists still cocked.

A6: With your weight loaded laterally over your left foot, which remains bent, you can now drive your right shoulder down. right knee forward towards left toe. I suppose the motion of your shoulder and right leg are the very beginnings of rotation, so hips are ever so slightly open. Additionally, right elbow stays tucked and wrists still cocked (if you are moving hips, shoulders, and hands ahead of the club, that lag should remain without trying).

A7: Impact. A continuation of A6, further rotation here. It was mentioned right knee moving towards left toe. Would it be correct to say that your right hip and right shoulder could feel to be moving in that direction? For instance, I saw a video where it was mentioned to imagine a clubface on your right shoulder (toe up) and you should imagine it hitting the ball squarely. I suppose the hip is starting to drive towards the target (i.e. pin) here. Additionally, the left arm is aligned with your torso and left leg, and since weight is shifted forward, that means in front of the ball (as are hands). Head stays BACK. So there is a slight arch from left foot through left leg through torso to head.

A8: Rotate through impact. Is this where the true rotation occurs? Do you keep right shoulder down (and head still) as long as possible while you continue to rotate hips? At what point do you allow yourself to start standing up and forward? Also, when do you release your hands and have right go over left? When at 45 degrees? Does this 45 degree arm angle and hand release also coincide with a horizontal club shaft too, i.e. the reverse of the takeaway position?

A9: If A8 is the reverse of the takeaway, then I guess this is the reverse of the A3 (arms parallel with the ground). However, you wouldn't be actively cocking your wrists here, just leaving in released position.

A10: Finish.

Sorry for long post. It actually helped me even typing that up though. But if anyone can help me out with other parts of the swing it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[iacas]

I apologize in advance if you take this the wrong way, but I have two simple points to make, and my intent is to help you:

First, a question: Is your handicap accurate?

Second, nobody should answer this question for you if they truly want to help you. The best way to improve at golf is to focus on a priority piece and then work on that until you have a new priority piece. People who go down the road you seem to want to go down - are not being stupid monkeys, they're not prioritizing, and so on.

---

Additionally, I'll add that there is no one model for the golf swing. Build the commonalities (http://purestrike5sk.com/) and you'll improve. If something you do is unique to you and not hampering your ability to do those things, great. That's why we can have Jim Furyk and Tiger and Phil and Vijay and Sergio and countless other golfers who differ in all but five things.

[JayFore]

No offense taken at all.

I believe it is my handicap. Well, as long as I'm allowed to exclude the first couple times I went out and was very terrible (i.e. averaging 8-12 strokes a hole). I've only played a local nine hole course, par 36, slope 117 and average +15 (my saving grace is the fact that I can putt and hit 1/4 swings surprisingly well) So I just took that and applied it to 18. However, I've only went out 6 times (8 if you include when I knew nothing), so since have I not played enough to even calculate it? I can remove it from my profile if that's a better idea. I don't really care if I were like +60, just trying to improve.

Anyways, I see what you're saying in regards to being a "stupid monkey" and I know it seems like I'm over analyzing, but it's mostly because for now I'm my own teacher. For me, and this is just based on other sports or stuff like weight lifting (where form is crucial), you don't know what you don't know. The first day I went out, I was muscling with my arms and hurting myself. Second time I went out, I relaxed and learned to feel proper back swing but was scooping the ball. I still did terribly. I read up on the impact position and focused on hitting down on the ball. It worked to make it so I actually make contact now, but I know I have other issues... since I'm still not hitting well. What are those issues? No clue! I just know I have them!

But I don't want to have this be a constant analysis for me. Ultimately, I just want to learn the proper swing and make sure I understand the basic positions and (A1 - A10) and am not wildly off base.

I did likely go overboard with some of this, but to be honest, it was the first time I've sat down and looked at a swing and the positions. Sure, the pros might be "stupid monkeys" sometimes, but they have had extensive coaching and practice. Through both they have definitely been guided through the proper swing motions until they had the proper feel and no longer needed to analyze it.

And most important thing.... thank you the references!

[iacas]

Anyways, I see what you're saying in regards to being a "stupid monkey" and I know it seems like I'm over analyzing, but it's mostly because for now I'm my own teacher.

Then it's even MORE important to keep things simple and avoid any and all over-analysis.

I recommend you post in the My Swings forum.