My Swing (Lihu)

[Lihu]

As my current swing appears to be much better than that last year, I decided to do a comprehensive comparison some of my clubs again.

Compared these irons all the way through the bag. I am estimating "average normalized" distances as compared to the MP-32. Used targets on the driving range that are measured to within a yard at each stall. Used a laser to the "landing position" (some parallax error). Individual decent shots all went about the same distances.

	MP-32	MP-52	Ping i20
U	NA	NA	105 yards
PW	1	1.04	1.1
9	1	1.04	1.1
8	1	1.04	1.1
7	1	1.04	1.1
6	1	1.05	1.1
5	1	1.07	1.1
4	1	1.08	1.1
3	190 yards (50%)	NA	NA

The reason why the distances are so much longer is simply because mishits were not as punishing. MP-52 is not as forgiving as the Ping-i20. On shots that would piddle along the ground with my MP-32 I probably only lost 20 yards. The table does not include severe mishits with the blades.

Compared the maximum or decent drive distances:

Ping G15-X100- hit reasonably straight this is the reference. E2 swing weight.

Burner DG-X100- sliced a lot, but when it went it would go about 5 yards further only because the loft is lower and it seemed to carry a bit further. The main thing is the balls rolled forever when I didn't slice. E1 swing weight.

Bio Cell PX6.5- was able to hit consistently something on the order of 20 yards or possibly more once I got used to the light weight. Has a fade issue on half the shots. I hooked a couple because I was getting used to the weight again. Swing weight is C2.

Ping i25 (PWR 75 TS)- was able to hit a maximum 25-30 yards further than the Ping X100 club, but IDK exactly and IDK anything about average improvement. Swing weight is around D4, and felt closer to the G15 than the Bio Cell. It has some heft to it. Not sure If I am going to keep the club or not. It's used.

Clearly, the heavier clubs are useful for training, and they do shorten my distance with driver and possibly even with irons. What surprised me is that other than the Bio Cell Driver, I was able to get used to any new club within one shot. So, I am thinking of getting a fitting while I do the Trackman Combine, and optimize my clubs accordingly.

[Lihu]

Beginning to suspect the GC2 launch monitors. I doubted that I get 20-25 yards with the graphite shafts and decided to hit the course on a couple holes. The two steel clubs versus the two graphite clubs using Titleist prov1x balls. On the first trial it looked like 10 yards on "average", but I wasn't hitting very well with the graphite clubs. Kept fading or slicing. My timing was obviously off. So, I only used the good shots for comparison. Going to do more this afternoon, and over the next week.

[Lihu]

My swing sequence is sometimes okay and sometimes not. Early afternoon DTL videos shot that my hips clear and there is sufficient lag.

Will need to work on this with 2 buckets of only LW slow steady swings with a totally relaxed feel.

[mvmac]

Beginning to suspect the GC2 launch monitors. I doubted that I get 20-25 yards with the graphite shafts and decided to hit the course on a couple holes. The two steel clubs versus the two graphite clubs using Titleist prov1x balls. On the first trial it looked like 10 yards on "average", but I wasn't hitting very well with the graphite clubs. Kept fading or slicing. My timing was obviously off. So, I only used the good shots for comparison.

Going to do more this afternoon, and over the next week.

Yeah I would probably guess it would be at least 10 yards. Not just the weight but also the flex/torque difference.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Beginning to suspect the GC2 launch monitors. I doubted that I get 20-25 yards with the graphite shafts and decided to hit the course on a couple holes. The two steel clubs versus the two graphite clubs using Titleist prov1x balls. On the first trial it looked like 10 yards on "average", but I wasn't hitting very well with the graphite clubs. Kept fading or slicing. My timing was obviously off. So, I only used the good shots for comparison.

Going to do more this afternoon, and over the next week.

Yeah I would probably guess it would be at least 10 yards. Not just the weight but also the flex/torque difference.

That's what the launch monitor indicated, but I can't believe it's 20-25 yards?

Even so, I am still working out the issues I am having with the better suited drivers. I get a "snappy whip" feel the graphite shafts, but at the wrong time. It is an improvement over the "sluggish snap" of the steel shafts, though.

I'm way out of sequence going from the steel to the BioCell/PX6.5 or even i25/75-TS. Bad things happen unless I feel my hips turn first in an extremely exaggerated sense. Maybe the much heavier steel shafts "hold me back" so that I get the desired lag in an artificially bad pulling all my shots kind of way?

In any case, I am working on that body sequencing with my LW for several buckets before I go back to hitting longer clubs again then doing similar drills all the way through the bag. It's going to be a work on the sequence month (or months) for me. . .thank goodness for unlimited buckets.

[iacas]

My swing sequence is sometimes okay and sometimes not.

It's probably not anywhere near as different as you think.

Small, almost imperceptible differences lead to very different results.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

My swing sequence is sometimes okay and sometimes not.

It's probably not anywhere near as different as you think.

Small, almost imperceptible differences lead to very different results.

Yeah, it sure seems that way. . .

[Lihu]

Played a round and totally beat a partner who was "superior" in the past.

I was was coming over the top because I was not comfortable making a full turn and swing on the tighter course for some reason. Going to spend a lot more time on he range getting comfortable. . .

Drives were not that long, but good enough and still longer than with my steel shaft drivers. My irons worked out better than I thought. I hit terribly off a grass driving range yesterday, but even with 100% mishits the course was a lot more forgiving. I made tons of greens and all but one near green. I hit a fat shot with my 6i off the tee on a par 3. The next par 3 I hit thin, but it rolled up within 10 yards, whiched I chipped really close for a tap in par.

My new putting stroke cut more than a couple strokes. I made a couple 8-12 foot putts that would have been impossible 2 months ago, and birdied one hole from 10 feet.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Lihu

[Lihu]

No more daily practice challenge, so I'll just post them here.
Winter's here! We got almost 2" rain in my town, and the temperatures are dropping to playable levels.

I switched back to MP-32, and all steel stuff to play the course for the winter season. It's thick and muddy, so I like to cut through stuff.

Summer Kit:

Adams A70 Putter
Rac 60,52 wedges
MP-52 6-P S300 and Ping i20 4-5 CFS Stiff
Burner 2.0 23 degree (meas.) hybrid KBS Xstiff
Burner 2.0 19 degree (meas.) hybrid KBS Xstiff
Diablo 3W Stiff
i25 9 degrees PWR 55-S
Pro-V1/x balls

Winter Kit:

Adams A70 Putter
Rac 60,52 wedges
MP-32 3-P KBS Tour
Burner 2.0 23 degree (meas.) hybrid KBS
Burner 2.0 19 degree (meas.) hybrid KBS
RBZ 15 degree 3W DG-X100 43.5" (like Stiff)
G15 10.5 degrees DG-X100 46" (like Stiff)

Doing my usual morning workout.

60-80 LW 5S and drill swings then the remaining balls with normal swings while aligning each shot using alignment rods and lining up the shoulders with a club.

 

Starting to get some pushed shots. Push cut with open face at setup and push draw with square face at setup.

[natureboy]

Working on my new putting stroke, which seems to have improved my lag putts.

What did you change? What is the new putting stroke model?

[Lihu]

What did you change? What is the new putting stroke model?

What is a putting stroke model?

[iacas]

What is a putting stroke model?

Heck if I know. I think @natureboy tries too hard to fit everyone into a mold, as in "that was a Pelz method" or "that was a Stockton putting stroke" or whatever. In reality, though you can loosely define some characteristics, virtually everything in golf has a lot of wiggle room for "customization" and "personality."

[natureboy]

What is a putting stroke model?

Heck if I know. I think @natureboy tries too hard to fit everyone into a mold, as in "that was a Pelz method" or "that was a Stockton putting stroke" or whatever. In reality, though you can loosely define some characteristics, virtually everything in golf has a lot of wiggle room for "customization" and "personality."

In plainer language (sorry for less clear word choice) @Lihu what are you trying to do now versus what you were doing before (putting-wise). Curious because I am also working at improving my lag putting and want to see what changes you / your instructor thought would help you.

[Lihu]

In plainer language (sorry for less clear word choice) @Lihu what are you trying to do now versus what you were doing before (putting-wise). Curious because I am also working at improving my lag putting and want to see what changes you / your instructor thought would help you.

I'll take some video this weekend. My new stroke feels "freer" than the last one. I pretty much use the same pendulum motion for lag putts and normal putts. Just the length of the putt changes.

Guessing that everyone is different, and my putting stroke is still work in progress. . .

[natureboy]

I'll take some video this weekend. My new stroke feels "freer" than the last one. I pretty much use the same pendulum motion for lag putts and normal putts. Just the length of the putt changes.

Guessing that everyone is different, and my putting stroke is still work in progress. . .

And you used to use some 'hit' with the old stroke?

[Lihu]

It was too hot to play today. Maybe, I can get some video next week?

[Lihu]

I think the PGA course rating you quote could be overstated. I came up with an average of 75 / 140 - still extremely tough. I could see actual tournament setups (non-major) increasing the base course difficulty with an extra point on course rating and 5 on slope. Major setups are probably like 79-80 / 150-155.

The 'field' would probably average about 68 on a 'typical course' of about 6500 yards rated at 72 / 120. 113 Slope is used in the HCP calculation, but it's more of a mathematical construction and actually lower than the average / typical course slope.

 

Hidden Content

So without a clarification / confirmation of details on your part, I will say that it looks like you actually practiced more in your early golf than even Dan.

Not sure this is even possible with a full-time job and a family, but if so and you had no prior golf experience your HCP progression was actually a bit behind Dan at his 3,000 hours mark.

He's done better and been more serious than you think.

If you care to respond to my questions then I can show you how you compare.

 

This stuff doesn't belong in Dan's thread.

I don't really think Dan is serious at all. Remember that you are comparing a person who has zero aspirations for going pro or even scratch (me), to Dan who claims to want to be a professional.

BTW, @natureboy I was just enjoying the game, I didn't really care too much about improving until about 2 years ago. It was not until a year ago that I played 6-7 rounds per week, and now dropped to 3 rounds and practice 7 days a week for the last 6 months. I dropped to about a 16 handicap over the first 2 to 3 years. In the last year, I was anywhere between 12.8 and down to an 11.7 then back up to 12.5 and now back down to 11. As of the last 2 months, my putting dropped from (30 to 40) down to about (32 to 34) putts. So no bad putting rounds. I hit 6 greens, and lots of near greens (within 10 to 20 yards ). My drives are longer than Dan's, and straighter as of 4 weeks ago thanks to the LSW clinic. I still pull the heck out of the drives while my irons are a lot more consistent distance wise, I still pull the heck out of them too. Working on my pulls and that's only because I want to learn proper form.

You can go through my entire thread to look at my progress, but realize that I'm just a hack and just enjoy practicing and playing the game.

For comparison, my son started a little earlier than Dan, but only seriously as of high school to play the team (3 years). He is a 6HC off season and 3HC during the season when he does deliberate practice 3 hours a day. During the season he hits 8 to 10 greens using old Cleveland CG Tour Blades, 30 to 32 putts and out drives Dan on every drive. I'm not bragging because he's pretty much the median in ability of a typical league winning player. Most of these better high school players range from scratch to 6. There are a few in the + range. This is high school.

 

D1 college players are usually +1 to +3, and you still think Dan was serious?

[natureboy]

 

This stuff doesn't belong in Dan's thread.

I don't really think Dan is serious at all. Remember that you are comparing a person who has zero aspirations for going pro or even scratch (me), to Dan who claims to want to be a professional.

BTW, @natureboy I was just enjoying the game, I didn't really care too much about improving until about 2 years ago. It was not until a year ago that I played 6-7 rounds per week, and now dropped to 3 rounds and practice 7 days a week for the last 6 months. I dropped to about a 16 handicap over the first 2 to 3 years. In the last year, I was anywhere between 12.8 and down to an 11.7 then back up to 12.5 and now back down to 11. As of the last 2 months, my putting dropped from (30 to 40) down to about (32 to 34) putts. So no bad putting rounds. I hit 6 greens, and lots of near greens (within 10 to 20 yards ). My drives are longer than Dan's, and straighter as of 4 weeks ago thanks to the LSW clinic. I still pull the heck out of the drives while my irons are a lot more consistent distance wise, I still pull the heck out of them too. Working on my pulls and that's only because I want to learn proper form.

You can go through my entire thread to look at my progress, but realize that I'm just a hack and just enjoy practicing and playing the game.

For comparison, my son started a little earlier than Dan, but only seriously as of high school to play the team (3 years). He is a 6HC off season and 3HC during the season when he does deliberate practice 3 hours a day. During the season he hits 8 to 10 greens using old Cleveland CG Tour Blades, 30 to 32 putts and out drives Dan on every drive. I'm not bragging because he's pretty much the median in ability of a typical league winning player. Most of these better high school players range from scratch to 6. There are a few in the + range. This is high school.

 

D1 college players are usually +1 to +3, and you still think Dan was serious?

It belongs in his thread if you are comparing your progress to his in that thread.

My point is that the total time you have put into the game is relevant. Especially when comparing to Dan. Extrapolating back from his hours at initial full course scores indicates that at 2000 hours of work he had dropped his HCP from 36.4 or 'official beginner' to about your level. It's a significant and fairly rapid drop. Now I'm not saying someone with PGA level innate physical skills wouldn't have gotten there a bit / noticeably quicker.

Being sarcastically dismissive of his attempt to follow the 'plan' lacking as it was comes across as arrogant when your own progress with a significant investment of effort was not as rapid, and you had a significant number of 'base hours' playing the game for fun before. That is relevant to developing skill even if it's not 'serious'. Without a breakthrough,his current track seems to be gong to a 0.5 HCP at 10,000 hrs. I do agree there's still a really big gap from scratch to 'tour member'. I do think he was naive to go whole hog in the plan before checking out the PGA players up close. That doesn't mean he wasn't serious. He may never have had much of a shot, but you don't actually know until you try. Talent raters using your filter would never have given Zach Johnson a chance to make it to the Tour let alone be a multiple major winner. Yet he's done it.

For me, Dan's shown that how significant the 10,000 hours (or just big time investment in complex skills) is. You bet it matters a great deal to those +1 college and H.S. players too who have probably invested that 10,000 hours or near to it already. Do you think any of them have just learned golf in the current year? Some higher HCP players on those teams may have started late, but have more natural talent and potential than the higher ranked teammates but are likely to pass the less talented but currently lower HCP players in coming years as they finish polishing off their game. Greg Norman may have gone from beginner to scratch in somewhere between 1,000 and 2,500 hours. It's hard to know because he grew up in a sunny place and while we have the rough calendar dates, we don't really know how often he played and practiced. He was a multiple major winner, #1 OWGR, and shoo-in HOF'er. He was not the average PGA or top amateur player either.

I think both innate human talents and time invested matters. I think the PGA tour players are talented, but that the time they or any really low HCP has invested matters almost as much to their level of achievement as their innate talent. I don't think they have crazy superhuman ability levels or they would be on the pro circuit shortly after puberty.