My Swing (gimpie)

[gimpie]

I've been Playing Golf for: 2 Years

My current handicap index or average score is: 14

My typical ball flight is: Low, Draw

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Push

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Videos:

[Mwferguson]

Hey Gimpie,

I see two items that could be causing your pushes or blocks to the right. The first and major item could be your club/arm position at the top of your swing. You take the club back to the inside and at the top of your swing your arms are very very very flat. This will create a tendency for you to get the club stuck behind you and force you to hit way out to the right as you make contact. I don't know if you have an issue with hooking the ball left are even hitting push fades but this would also cause those shots as well.

If you can get your hands more over your right shoulder at the top of your back swing then you will be in a better position to allow the club to drop down more in front of your body and give you a straighter path into the ball. The higher hands can also give you a bit more club head speed as you will be using natural gravity to assist you in dropping the club. The flatter the swing the more your body has to work to rotate through to achieve higher swing speeds.

The other item I see is you do spin your hips pretty aggressively open to initiate your downswing. That tends to pull the shoulders open early and leave the club stuck behind you as well.

If you could try to raise the face on camera to around hip high that would be better for any future videos. The real low view really makes it difficult to see whats going on.

It will be important to look in a mirror and record your swings as you practice what I described. It will probably feel like your arms and hands are much higher than they will actually be.

Good luck!

[iacas]

The first and major item could be your club/arm position at the top of your swing. You take the club back to the inside and at the top of your swing your arms are very very very flat. This will create a tendency for you to get the club stuck behind you and force you to hit way out to the right as you make contact. I don't know if you have an issue with hooking the ball left are even hitting push fades but this would also cause those shots as well.

His transition works the other way. It's players who go from steep to shallow that risk getting the club "stuck" behind them.

The higher hands can also give you a bit more club head speed as you will be using natural gravity to assist you in dropping the club.

Gravity does not play a significant role in the golf swing (except at keeping us anchored to the earth so we can use the ground to generate speed). C'mon now… Let's avoid being silly. :)

The other item I see is you do spin your hips pretty aggressively open to initiate your downswing. That tends to pull the shoulders open early and leave the club stuck behind you as well.

Neither his hips nor his shoulders are too open here. If anything, they're a bit too closed.

If you could try to raise the face on camera to around hip high that would be better for any future videos. The real low view really makes it difficult to see whats going on.

I agree.

I also agree that cleaning up the backswing first is the priority, though for different reasons on the downswing (legwork, sequencing).

[gimpie]

Hey Gimpie,

I see two items that could be causing your pushes or blocks to the right. The first and major item could be your club/arm position at the top of your swing. You take the club back to the inside and at the top of your swing your arms are very very very flat. This will create a tendency for you to get the club stuck behind you and force you to hit way out to the right as you make contact. I don't know if you have an issue with hooking the ball left are even hitting push fades but this would also cause those shots as well.

If you can get your hands more over your right shoulder at the top of your back swing then you will be in a better position to allow the club to drop down more in front of your body and give you a straighter path into the ball. The higher hands can also give you a bit more club head speed as you will be using natural gravity to assist you in dropping the club. The flatter the swing the more your body has to work to rotate through to achieve higher swing speeds.

The other item I see is you do spin your hips pretty aggressively open to initiate your downswing. That tends to pull the shoulders open early and leave the club stuck behind you as well.

If you could try to raise the face on camera to around hip high that would be better for any future videos. The real low view really makes it difficult to see whats going on.

It will be important to look in a mirror and record your swings as you practice what I described. It will probably feel like your arms and hands are much higher than they will actually be.

Good luck!

Hi Mwferguson,

Thanks for your response and your time in looking at my swing!  I do agree that my swing looks very flat, but is it my arms that are too flat or my hands that are too laid off? I don't know what kind of difference it would make but it seems like my arms are at about shoulder height...could also be an issue of my shoulders rotating too much on a flat line rather than an inclination.

As for my hips spinning out...thank you very much for pointing this out. I had noticed that my right foot was lifting off the ground extremely early and I believe that it may be lifting because of my hips. I have tried to keep my right foot on the ground by using mvmac's drill (i think, keeping the toes up) but am having a hard time trying to incorporate into the swing. I will try quieting my hips.

Noted on the camera angle, am inside and didn't have the space to get a good FO angle.

Again, thanks for your response and I'll be working on getting my hands a bit higher. If I can keep my shots and add a little consistency through that, that would be great.

Thanks,

James

[gimpie]

His transition works the other way. It's players who go from steep to shallow that risk getting the club "stuck" behind them.

I also agree that cleaning up the backswing first is the priority, though for different reasons on the downswing (legwork, sequencing).

Hi Erik, what a nice surprise to have you post in my swing thread so early :D I was inside and didn't have much room to work with on the camera angles. I will get better one's up when I can get outside.

Few questions -

1. Is a flat to steep transition, as shown in your first screenshot, an undesirable thing? I have tried the "furyk" feel and felt uncomfortable and didn't spend too much time ingraining it into my swing as I didn't see a need to.

2. Would you like to see my swing be more in-to-out? i.e. is my diagonal path into the ball to steep?

Thanks,

James

[iacas]

could also be an issue of my shoulders rotating too much on a flat line rather than an inclination.

It's a bit of both (and a third - wrist cocking/hinging rates).

As for my hips spinning out...thank you very much for pointing this out. I had noticed that my right foot was lifting off the ground extremely early and I believe that it may be lifting because of my hips. I have tried to keep my right foot on the ground by using mvmac's drill (i think, keeping the toes up) but am having a hard time trying to incorporate into the swing. I will try quieting my hips.

They don't spin out. See above.

You're having a hard time because with the backswing that far behind you, the only way to get the club out is to disrupt the normal sequencing. You'd probably have trouble breaking 120 trying to keep your foot on the ground.

1. Is a flat to steep transition, as shown in your first screenshot, an undesirable thing? I have tried the "furyk" feel and felt uncomfortable and didn't spend too much time ingraining it into my swing as I didn't see a need to.

Quick: name five PGA Tour pros who go shallow to steep.

As for why it felt uncomfortable, duh, it was different. VERY different. You list your handicap as 18. That's your need.

2. Would you like to see my swing be more in-to-out? i.e. is my diagonal path into the ball to steep?

No. But your sequencing is currently impairing your ability to get the face consistently where you need it to be. All said, Key #4 on the downswing isn't terrible, but Key #4 on the backswing is goofing with your Key #5.

[Mwferguson]

Gravity does not play a significant role in the golf swing (except at keeping us anchored to the earth so we can use the ground to generate speed). C'mon now… Let's avoid being silly. :)

All I am saying is its much easier to pull something down or let it fall than it is to pull that same object around your body. Thus less effort needed. Why is that? Its basic physics. But no worries, I agree to disagree ;)

[iacas]

All I am saying is its much easier to pull something down or let it fall than it is to pull that same object around your body. Thus less effort needed. Why is that? Its basic physics. But no worries, I agree to disagree ;)

My point is that by mentioning it at all you've drastically over-stated gravity's role in adding clubhead  speed.

It's also not basic physics, as the human body is not a closed system. Time and space matter far, far more because 99.99999999999999999% of the forces that result in clubhead speed are caused by muscles, and giving them the optimal time and space through which to reach their peak velocities at the proper time is about a million times more important than the minuscule addition of a few inches of height in allowing gravity to have a greater effect.

[gimpie]

Quick: name five PGA Tour pros who go shallow to steep.

Only one I can think of off the top of my head is possibly Matt Kuchar? Maybe...haha

As for why it felt uncomfortable, duh, it was different. VERY different. You list your handicap as 18. That's your need.

Understood that it is the complete opposite of what I am used to, just haven't had confirmation that this is the feel/action that I need. I've updated my handicap, usually shoot mid to high 80's. (Only reason I'm mentioning this is that it MIGHT change the way you offer advice as opposed to an 18. 14 is not much better I know *sob*)

No. But your sequencing is currently impairing your ability to get the face consistently where you need it to be. All said, Key #4 on the downswing isn't terrible, but Key #4 on the backswing is goofing with your Key #5.

Yep, I am having trouble with consistenc y, especially off the tee. My full-swing wedges are terrible too.

Thanks again Erik, I'll be working at it.

[iacas]

Only one I can think of off the top of my head is possibly Matt Kuchar? Maybe...haha

Thanks again Erik, I'll be working at it.

I've changed that twice now. Please no more. :)

[gimpie]

I've changed that twice now. Please no more. :)

Darn! close with Kuchar, point taken on the flat to steep swing.

Sorry, haha. I have a friend named Eric - too used to spelling it that way. Please accept my apology, ERIK.

[mvmac]

James, like Erik said, more of this with less forearm rotation

[Mwferguson]

Hi Mwferguson,

Thanks for your response and your time in looking at my swing!  I do agree that my swing looks very flat, but is it my arms that are too flat or my hands that are too laid off? I don't know what kind of difference it would make but it seems like my arms are at about shoulder height...could also be an issue of my shoulders rotating too much on a flat line rather than an inclination.

As for my hips spinning out...thank you very much for pointing this out. I had noticed that my right foot was lifting off the ground extremely early and I believe that it may be lifting because of my hips. I have tried to keep my right foot on the ground by using mvmac's drill (i think, keeping the toes up) but am having a hard time trying to incorporate into the swing. I will try quieting my hips.

Noted on the camera angle, am inside and didn't have the space to get a good FO angle.

Again, thanks for your response and I'll be working on getting my hands a bit higher. If I can keep my shots and add a little consistency through that, that would be great.

Thanks,

James

Your very welcome!

I must say,my swing was very similar to yours when I first started. So I noticed things that reminded me of myself a few years back when I was an 18 handicap. My back foot would raise super early just like your foot raises. Dead give a way for early hip spinning! I think Erik or someone made the comment that you were not spinning your hips? Not sure, but If I can draw your attention to exhibit A below :). I really don't think you could open them up any further at this point. The only drill I could do to help me was a drill called sitting into the left side. Basically when you start your downswing instead of spinning open you want to feel like you sit into your left heel keeping your belt buckle closed to the target. From there your can get the feeling up pressing your left leg into the ground to pull the club through impact. This will also help you maintain your tush line throughout your swing.

I look forward to seeing your improvement!

[iacas]

I think Erik or someone made the comment that you were not spinning your hips? Not sure, but If I can draw your attention to exhibit A below :).

Hips aren't very open:

PGA Tour average is about 40° open at impact, 15-20° or so open with the shoulders.

[Ernest Jones]

Hips aren't very open: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/88702/] [/URL] PGA Tour average is about 40° open at impact, 15-20° or so open with the shoulders.

Erik, would you say that getting that foot to bank more would assist with getting the hips more open at impact? It seems to me that getting up on your toes causes the hip rotation to stall a little to keep you from losing your balance or am I way off on that?

[iacas]

Erik, would you say that getting that foot to bank more would assist with getting the hips more open at impact? It seems to me that getting up on your toes causes the hip rotation to stall a little to keep you from losing your balance or am I way off on that?

Yes, but for now it's an attempt to compensate for the backswing.

[Mwferguson]

Hips aren't very open:

PGA Tour average is about 40° open at impact, 15-20° or so open with the shoulders.

Hey Erik,

You don't think his hips have opened up to early looking at the FO view above?  I think most people would say that his hips have opened 45 degrees or so already and his hands are only around waist high. He continues to open them a bit further into impact. I am not familiar with your 5SK though, is this hip movement something that is ideal with your methodology?  I really love Tiger's position here. I think its a far more stable position. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

[iacas]

You don't think his hips have opened up to early looking at the FO view above?

You're being fooled by his right knee kicking in so far and the camera angle. Look at his torso - it's probably still 20-30° closed - it's highly unlikely he has a 60°+ differential. The DL view is better in this case. I already responded to exactly this picture of yours, and you just posted the same picture again (with the wasted white space - please trim that).

I am not familiar with your 5SK though, is this hip movement something that is ideal with your methodology?

Please read my posts above. I've never said his hip motion is even close to ideal, I just disagree that they're "spinning" like you seem to believe. Also, 5SK is not a "methodology" in that we require one specific hip motion. Jim Furyk's hips are more open than Tiger's or other PGA Tour players.

Now, as he has plenty to work on, and this is his thread, I'm going to suggest we table the discussion for now or, if you wish to continue, to do so in a more appropriate thread.