Is it possible for Mr Average to become a scratch golfer in just 12 months?

[minitour]

What I meant is if he can make it in 1 year to scratch he must have so much talent to even make more progress to be able to play on the tour. Scratch certainly isn't enough.

With that logic, a 25 capper reducing his index to 20 over 5 years should be able to play the Tour some day.  It may take him 85 years to get his game in shape, but your presumption is that improvement has no limit.  That may not be the case.

I'd say with enough money (to take time away from work, pay bills, afford lessons, range time, playing, fitness, equipment, etc.) yeah someone with decent athletic ability could get to scratch in a year.  Could they get to the tour?  Not sure.  Depends on the person.  Maybe scratch is as good as they can get.  Maybe they can get to a +2.  +2 isn't going to win any money out there either though :)

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

I'd say with enough money (to take time away from work, pay bills, afford lessons, range time, playing, fitness, equipment, etc.) yeah someone with decent athletic ability could get to scratch in a year.  Could they get to the tour?  Not sure.  Depends on the person.  Maybe scratch is as good as they can get.  Maybe they can get to a +2.  +2 isn't going to win any money out there either though :)

I am self-employed (read: my employees run my business, I don't work much) and have spent a ton of time getting better at golf.  I'm a good athlete with a background in another stick-and-ball sport (tennis).

It took me roughly four years of playing every day to go from a 30 handicap to a 4 handicap.  I'm not close to scratch.

I think it has much more to do with he brain than the body.  This is just IMO.

[minitour]

Is this based on anything at all or just conjecture?

I am self-employed (read: my employees run my business, I don't work much) and have spent a ton of time getting better at golf.  I'm a good athlete with a background in another stick-and-ball sport (tennis).

It took me roughly four years of playing every day to go from a 30 handicap to a 4 handicap.  I'm not close to scratch.

I don't think you understand how hard it is.

I went from a god-knows-what when I was 15 to a +3 when I was 19 (then the real world happened and I got a job, a wife, etc. and am now hovering in the 2 range).

I think I understand how hard it is.

"Playing every day" isn't enough.

[Reval14]

With that logic, a 25 capper reducing his index to 20 over 5 years should be able to play the Tour some day.  It may take him 85 years to get his game in shape, but your presumption is that improvement has no limit.  That may not be the case. I'd say with enough money (to take time away from work, pay bills, afford lessons, range time, playing, fitness, equipment, etc.) yeah someone with decent athletic ability could get to scratch in a year.  Could they get to the tour?  Not sure.  Depends on the person.  Maybe scratch is as good as they can get.  Maybe they can get to a +2.  +2 isn't going to win any money out there either though :)

Of course you never know when a player reaches his limits. But I still think a player that needs 1 year from HCP 20 to 0 has better chances than a player that needs 5 years to achieve the same under similar conditions.

[minitour]

Of course you never know when a player reaches his limits. But I still think a player that needs 1 year from HCP 20 to 0 has better chances than a player that needs 5 years to achieve the same under similar conditions.

Not if that's his limit.

If two people take off running and one goes around the track in 45 seconds and stops, and the other one goes around the track at a constant speed 16 times over the course of 30 minutes....who went farther?

[Reval14]

Not if that's his limit. If two people take off running and one goes around the track in 45 seconds and stops, and the other one goes around the track at a constant speed 16 times over the course of 30 minutes....who went farther?

So you think people that learn slow can be better players than people that learn fast?

[minitour]

"Can" they? Yes. Is it a certainty? Absolutely not. Just as the opposite is not a sure thing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reval14]

Of course. Regarding myself I hope you're right.

[inthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reval14

If you make it in one year to scratch you have so much talent to play on the Tour.

The difference between "scratch" and Tour level is so much greater than the difference between 25 and scratch that it really isn't comparable.  I think that given the right situation (cherry-picking qualifiers and main event sites to suit ones game), a scratch golfer could play in a tour event...but not sustain a card.  Those guys are really, REALLY, really good.

I know you were a +3 and can say this with authority.    BUT I simply have a very very VERY hard time believing it.      It's pretty easy to recognize a 25 hcp on the golf course (sorry guys, no disrespect), and comparing that golfer to a scratch golfer - the difference isn't miles, it's LIGHT YEARS apart.    I just don't see a scratch golfer compared to say a +8 pro being that kind of different, but I'm a lowly 13, so what do I know ...

[pepsiplusconker]

You have no chance of getting down to a scratch handicap within the year.

I'd say shooting par within a year is possible though because I've come very close myself (+2/+3/+4), after averaging around 90+ when I first got my membership and start playing twice per week.

How long has it taken you to get to where you are now? Have you just started playing?

I'd say if you get some lessons, play 3 times per week, actually practice shots, play on the course hitting a couple of balls etc. when it's empty, practice putting alot, you could do it.

To be fair, I don't actually play from the tips, it's a short 6,150 course, I'm guessing I'd add a few strokes going from the tips.

[pepsiplusconker]

I know you were a +3 and can say this with authority.    BUT I simply have a very very VERY hard time believing it.      It's pretty easy to recognize a 25 hcp on the golf course (sorry guys, no disrespect), and comparing that golfer to a scratch golfer - the difference isn't miles, it's LIGHT YEARS apart.    I just don't see a scratch golfer compared to say a +8 pro being that kind of different, but I'm a lowly 13, so what do I know ...

I kind of see your point here, I think maybe it could be just one of those cliche things people started saying, and it caught on.

But maybe you can tell the differences between the 25 and scratch because they are massively obvious, where as the difference between scratch and +8 are pretty subtle, plus you'll never see the +8 and scratch play together, where as you'll probably see a 25 and a scratch, or close to scratch handicap play together now and again.

[pepsiplusconker]

Not if that's his limit.

If two people take off running and one goes around the track in 45 seconds and stops, and the other one goes around the track at a constant speed 16 times over the course of 30 minutes....who went farther?

Someone who has the ability to learn and improve 5x quicker than another guy, almost certainly has a higher limit, it seems obvious to me.

[MS256]

I kind of see your point here, I think maybe it could be just one of those cliche things people started saying, and it caught on.

But maybe you can tell the differences between the 25 and scratch because they are massively obvious, where as the difference between scratch and +8 are pretty subtle, plus you'll never see the +8 and scratch play together, where as you'll probably see a 25 and a scratch, or close to scratch handicap play together now and again.

Think of it like there's a wall in sports between the best players and everybody else. Once that wall is reached improvement slows to a snail's pace and eventually stops altogether.

Most people can make great improvements right up to that wall but can't get over it to save their lives.

The 25 handicap is like a kid starting to learn to high jump that can only clear 5 feet. If he's really good he may get to 7'4" to 7' 6" in time. He's made two and a half feet of improvement since he started but that two feet is absolutely nothing compared to gaining another 4" to 6" to be one of the best.

[minitour]

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reval14

If you make it in one year to scratch you have so much talent to play on the Tour.

The difference between "scratch" and Tour level is so much greater than the difference between 25 and scratch that it really isn't comparable .  I think that given the right situation (cherry-picking qualifiers and main event sites to suit ones game), a scratch golfer could play in a tour event...but not sustain a card.  Those guys are really, REALLY, really good.

I know you were a +3 and can say this with authority.    BUT I simply have a very very VERY hard time believing it.      It's pretty easy to recognize a 25 hcp on the golf course (sorry guys, no disrespect), and comparing that golfer to a scratch golfer - the difference isn't miles, it's LIGHT YEARS apart.    I just don't see a scratch golfer compared to say a +8 pro being that kind of different, but I'm a lowly 13, so what do I know ...

then don't listen to me. Listen to the guys who work with your players and amateurs of all levels.

[BallMarker]

Think of it like there's a wall in sports between the best players and everybody else. Once that wall is reached improvement slows to a snail's pace and eventually stops altogether. Most people can make great improvements right up to that wall but can't get over it to save their lives. The 25 handicap is like a kid starting to learn to high jump that can only clear 5 feet. If he's really good he may get to 7'4" to 7' 6" in time. He's made two and a half feet of improvement since he started but that two feet is absolutely nothing compared to gaining another 4" to 6" to be one of the best.

I've heard that once you've reached that wall, from that point, it's mostly about your mental state. Do you have the mental strength to compete at such a high level? 99% of us can't take the constant grind, pressure or the stress. But mostly we don't have the work ethic it takes to play at that level.

[jsp9999]

I know you were a +3 and can say this with authority.    BUT I simply have a very very VERY hard time believing it.      It's pretty easy to recognize a 25 hcp on the golf course (sorry guys, no disrespect), and comparing that golfer to a scratch golfer - the difference isn't miles, it's LIGHT YEARS apart.    I just don't see a scratch golfer compared to say a +8 pro being that kind of different, but I'm a lowly 13, so what do I know ...

I saw this article some time back and really opened my eyes.  I mean I never even heard of Steve Marino and the way it was described just blew my mind away.  The last part where he missed U.S. Open cut by shooting 17 over for two days... That is something.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221_2.html?sid=ST2009071701245

It's all matter of perspective.  From 25 hcp like me, scratch is light years away.  For scratch, a tour pro is light years away. For an average tour pro, Tiger Woods or Adam Scott is light years away.  Just another similarity of golf and life

[chasm]

I know you were a +3 and can say this with authority.    BUT I simply have a very very VERY hard time believing it.      It's pretty easy to recognize a 25 hcp on the golf course (sorry guys, no disrespect), and comparing that golfer to a scratch golfer - the difference isn't miles, it's LIGHT YEARS apart.    I just don't see a scratch golfer compared to say a +8 pro being [U]that kind[/U] of different, but I'm a lowly 13, so what do I know ...

I'm even lowlier, so my personal knowledge is less than yours. But I do know of a kid in my local area who was +2 aged 19 and went off to the States to play college golf. Can't remember which college, sorry. He was back home a year later, he simply couldn't cut it. He was still going round in sub-par figures but was losing by four and five shots per round, and finishing well down the field every time. And only a minority of those who were crushing him would go on to have successful careers on tour. The gulf is unbridgeable, these guys are a different breed of cat.

[Lucas]

If you dedicated your whole life to it for the full year, you might have a slim chance if you are really talented. Anyways best of luck to ya. :-)