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Posted
I have just spent a couple of weeks on a golfing trip in lowland Scotland, on either side of the Firth of Forth. My companions and I played some terrific courses, a few of them quite famous, a few less so. I thought a brief review might be useful to thise who might be planning, or dreaming of, golfing vacations in the future. [b]East Lothian: [/b]a short drive east of Edinburgh on the south bank of the Firth of Forth. Gullane #1 links course, 6583 yards off white tees, hosting Scottish Open next year. One of three courses at Gullane. Unusual for a links course in that it is decidedly hilly. A terrific golf course, with scarcely a single hole (with the possible exception of the first) that I'd describe as routine. Full of variety, with holes sloping steeply up and down, and very high on risk/reward holes. Must be an absolute beast when the wind is blowing. Probably my favourite course of the whole trip, highly recommended. Gullane #2 links course, 6385 off whites. Laid out by Willie Park jnr. Similar in character to Gullane #1, but to my mind a much less interesting track. Hard to put ones finger on exactly why, just seemed to play a bit more straightforwardly than its big brother. Still an excellent and unusual course. The barman in the visitors clubhouse at Gullane is a star. And the Old Clubhouse pub in the village serves great food and good beer. North Berwick . Links course, Open qualifier, 6140 off the blues. An excellent visitor experience, greeted at the clubhouse and very well received by the jovial starter who dispenses advice on how to play the first without making a fool of onesself. Very impressive, considering they get 10,000 visitors a year. In my opinion, the most difficult course we played. Taking driver often a mistake, and some of the approach shots incomprehensible. Impossible to hold the ball on the very fast greens, and bumping and running Often falls prey to the contours that guide the ball into the traps. Maybe I'd do better now I know the course a little, but I'm very glad the wind wasn't strong. Great experience, a quintessential links. Dunbar links course, about 6500 off whites. Loved this course. Not the most sophisticated in terms of facilities, and nowhere near as famous as Gullane or North Berwick, but a superb layout and absolutely beautiful. Felt fairer than North Berwick in that good shots rarely left one in trouble. Fife North of Edinburgh. St Andrews an easy drive from all the courses listed below. Ladybank . Parkland course, 6300 off blues, Open qualifier. Unusual for this trip in that it is a tight, heavily wooded, pan-flat parkland course. High premium on being straight, because a lot of the rough is heather and simply impossible. Very beautiful course, but for those travelling a great distance I wouldn't necessarily recommend it if only because itis probably more similar to what they are used to, and there are more idiosyncratic alternatives available. Elie . The Golf House Club, links course, 6273 yards. Simply gorgeous. The golf course is surrounded on two sides by the village and on the other by the sea. Quirky in the extreme. Men playing in shorts are required to wear long socks, which are available for purchase (funds to charity) in the starters hut. They are lurid colours, including a very fetching fluorescent orange. The first is a blind hole, and the starter advises those on the tee if the fairway is clear by using a forty-foot periscope from a WWII submarine. Two clubs use the course, one male, one female. The ladies' clubhouse is attached to, but separate from, the men's. None of this detracts from the fact that this is a superb golf course. Despite being almost 6300 yards, there are no par 5s. Some of the par 4s are pretty challenging. Great fun. Lundin Links. links course (doh), 6371 yards off whites. The best greens we came across on the trip, fast, but not ridiculously so, and rolled beautifully. Slightly confusing layout with a number of blind holes - I played to the wrong green once. Fortunately it was a par five and by the time I spotted my mistake I wasn't fatally off line. Another lovely golf course. In my opinion both this and Elie (above) are more interesting links courses than the Old Course, as well as being much cheaper. Crail - Balcombie Links . Links course, 5861 off whites, laid out by Old Tom Morris back in the day. Mainly of historical interest, as far as I am concerned. This must be almost as close as one can get to golf in its 19th century form. Old Tom was an ingenious old beggar, he crammed the maximum amount of golf course into the available space. As a result the course is very tight, with tees and greens very close together. Short, but far from easy. I scored worse here than anywhere except North Berwick. TL;DR version There's a hell of a lot of terrific golf courses around here. You won't be disappointed.
  • Upvote 1

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
Very cool, thanks for sharing. Got any pics?

You're welcome. No, I'm not big on pics - I generally find when I come home that I never look at them again, and to be honest, one pic of a fairway bunker looks much like another... All these clubs have websites, though, with pictues, diagrams of the course layouts, the usual stuff. So anyone who is tempted and wants more info should head there.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
I have just spent a couple of weeks on a golfing trip in lowland Scotland, on either side of the Firth of Forth. My companions and I played some terrific courses, a few of them quite famous, a few less so. I thought a brief review might be useful to thise who might be planning, or dreaming of, golfing vacations in the future. [b]East Lothian: [/b]a short drive east of Edinburgh on the south bank of the Firth of Forth. Gullane #1 links course, 6583 yards off white tees, hosting Scottish Open next year. One of three courses at Gullane. Unusual for a links course in that it is decidedly hilly. A terrific golf course, with scarcely a single hole (with the possible exception of the first) that I'd describe as routine. Full of variety, with holes sloping steeply up and down, and very high on risk/reward holes. Must be an absolute beast when the wind is blowing. Probably my favourite course of the whole trip, highly recommended. Gullane #2 links course, 6385 off whites. Laid out by Willie Park jnr. Similar in character to Gullane #1, but to my mind a much less interesting track. Hard to put ones finger on exactly why, just seemed to play a bit more straightforwardly than its big brother. Still an excellent and unusual course. The barman in the visitors clubhouse at Gullane is a star. And the Old Clubhouse pub in the village serves great food and good beer. North Berwick . Links course, Open qualifier, 6140 off the blues. An excellent visitor experience, greeted at the clubhouse and very well received by the jovial starter who dispenses advice on how to play the first without making a fool of onesself. Very impressive, considering they get 10,000 visitors a year. In my opinion, the most difficult course we played. Taking driver often a mistake, and some of the approach shots incomprehensible. Impossible to hold the ball on the very fast greens, and bumping and running Often falls prey to the contours that guide the ball into the traps. Maybe I'd do better now I know the course a little, but I'm very glad the wind wasn't strong. Great experience, a quintessential links. Dunbar links course, about 6500 off whites. Loved this course. Not the most sophisticated in terms of facilities, and nowhere near as famous as Gullane or North Berwick, but a superb layout and absolutely beautiful. Felt fairer than North Berwick in that good shots rarely left one in trouble. Fife North of Edinburgh. St Andrews an easy drive from all the courses listed below. Ladybank . Parkland course, 6300 off blues, Open qualifier. Unusual for this trip in that it is a tight, heavily wooded, pan-flat parkland course. High premium on being straight, because a lot of the rough is heather and simply impossible. Very beautiful course, but for those travelling a great distance I wouldn't necessarily recommend it if only because itis probably more similar to what they are used to, and there are more idiosyncratic alternatives available. Elie . The Golf House Club, links course, 6273 yards. Simply gorgeous. The golf course is surrounded on two sides by the village and on the other by the sea. Quirky in the extreme. Men playing in shorts are required to wear long socks, which are available for purchase (funds to charity) in the starters hut. They are lurid colours, including a very fetching fluorescent orange. The first is a blind hole, and the starter advises those on the tee if the fairway is clear by using a forty-foot periscope from a WWII submarine. Two clubs use the course, one male, one female. The ladies' clubhouse is attached to, but separate from, the men's. None of this detracts from the fact that this is a superb golf course. Despite being almost 6300 yards, there are no par 5s. Some of the par 4s are pretty challenging. Great fun. Lundin Links. links course (doh), 6371 yards off whites. The best greens we came across on the trip, fast, but not ridiculously so, and rolled beautifully. Slightly confusing layout with a number of blind holes - I played to the wrong green once. Fortunately it was a par five and by the time I spotted my mistake I wasn't fatally off line. Another lovely golf course. In my opinion both this and Elie (above) are more interesting links courses than the Old Course, as well as being much cheaper. Crail - Balcombie Links . Links course, 5861 off whites, laid out by Old Tom Morris back in the day. Mainly of historical interest, as far as I am concerned. This must be almost as close as one can get to golf in its 19th century form. Old Tom was an ingenious old beggar, he crammed the maximum amount of golf course into the available space. As a result the course is very tight, with tees and greens very close together. Short, but far from easy. I scored worse here than anywhere except North Berwick. TL;DR version There's a hell of a lot of terrific golf courses around here. You won't be disappointed.

Great recap of each course, brought back a lot of mems. I played Elie, Lundin Links (where Brad Faxon omce qualified for the Open), and Crail. Awesome tracks and interestingly, had my best scoring round of the whole trip at Crail. Different strokes, I guess. Some pics: Elie Lundin Links Crail Can't find a pic on my phone but it's my avatar so I know it must be here somewhere.

In my Bag: Driver: Titelist 913 D3 9.5 deg. 3W: TaylorMade RBZ 14.5 3H: TaylorMade RBZ 18.5 4I - SW: TaylorMade R7 TP LW: Titelist Vokey 60 Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball

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Posted
Great recap of each course, brought back a lot of mems. I played Elie, Lundin Links (where Brad Faxon omce qualified for the Open), and Crail. Awesome tracks and interestingly, had my best scoring round of the whole trip at Crail. Different strokes, I guess. Some pics: Elie Lundin Links Crail Can't find a pic on my phone but it's my avatar so I know it must be here somewhere.

The Crail pic in your avatar looks as if it was taken from the 1st tee? Glad you enjoyed it. Even though I'm a Brit, these courses are very different from those I usually play. I imagine that to a Texan they must be like something from another planet.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
The Crail pic in your avatar looks as if it was taken from the 1st tee? Glad you enjoyed it. Even though I'm a Brit, these courses are very different from those I usually play. I imagine that to a Texan they must be like something from another planet.

Ha, no doubt but an amazing experience. I don't think that was #1 at the time I played it. It was a cool little par 3 that I seem to recall being 6 or 7 but my mem could be off. Think I birdied it but I could be misremembering that too.

In my Bag: Driver: Titelist 913 D3 9.5 deg. 3W: TaylorMade RBZ 14.5 3H: TaylorMade RBZ 18.5 4I - SW: TaylorMade R7 TP LW: Titelist Vokey 60 Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
I don't think that was #1 at the time I played it. It was a cool little par 3 that I seem to recall being 6 or 7 but my mem could be off. Think I birdied it but I could be misremembering that too.

Ah, right. Your memory is good, it's the 6th.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
Ah, right. Your memory is good, it's the 6th.

Good to hear, probably also means I DID birdie it, yessssssss!

In my Bag: Driver: Titelist 913 D3 9.5 deg. 3W: TaylorMade RBZ 14.5 3H: TaylorMade RBZ 18.5 4I - SW: TaylorMade R7 TP LW: Titelist Vokey 60 Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4184 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
    • Wordle 1,668 3/6 🟨🟨🟩⬜⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,668 3/6 🟨🟩🟨🟨⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 Should have got it in two, but I have music on my brain.
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