"raw" wedges and rust... thoughts?

[crazy_horst]

I have one of the rtg "raw" wedges from Cleveland (which I love, by the way):



They are supposed to rust over time, which I can only imagine provides more spin. Yet I've had mine for close to a year and... no rust.

I've heard of people putting them in a glass of Coke over night, and that the sugar strips the finish off, which will allow it to rust faster. Anyone ever tried this? I don't want to go experimenting and f up my wedge.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[myndcraft]

No clue, but i know putting anything rusty in a can of coke overnight will eat away the rust :D

[Xbmchs12X]

You put your clubs in coke over night to get ride of the rust, not to make them rust.

[iacas]

Rust doesn't add spin nor does it improve the feel. I've linked to this article several times over the past few months, but this time I'm going to encourage y'all to search the main site as well as the forum before asking questions that have likely been asked and answered already:

http://thesandtrap.com/bag_drop/is_rust_a_must

[crazy_horst]

Rust doesn't add spin nor does it improve the feel. I've linked to this article several times over the past few months, but this time I'm going to encourage y'all to search the main site as well as the forum before asking questions that have likely been asked and answered already:

That's all well and good, but is there any empirical evidence that rusty wedges increase spin is a "wive's tale"?

[Zakko]

That's all well and good, but is there any empirical evidence that rusty wedges increase spin is a "wive's tale"?

No, the aforementioned article appeared to be nothing but an editorial.

[iacas]

No, the aforementioned article appeared to be nothing but an editorial.

The "aforementioned article" was written by someone that was and still is well entrenched in the golf industry and knows what he's talking about.

And even if that weren't true, common sense would tell you that rust doesn't do anything re: spin. Rust doesn't do much beyond help to reduce glare.

[crazy_horst]

The "aforementioned article" was written by someone that was and still is well entrenched in the golf industry and knows what he's talking about.

Common sense tells me the opposite - that increased friction would increase the grip on the ball and thus the spin. But I ain't no Bob Villa, or Roger Cleveland for that matter.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, but rather would like to know if anyone really has done some testing on this.

[Genericity]

I have one of the rtg "raw" wedges from Cleveland (which I love, by the way):

Yes it is true. Placing the wedge in coke WILL strip the finish off of the wedge mentioned above. I did this to strip the finish off of three oil can vokeys.

You don't have to leave the clubs in coke for an entire night - a couple hours worked just fine for me.

[josef]

Common sense tells me the opposite - that increased friction would increase the grip on the ball and thus the spin. But I ain't no Bob Villa, or Roger Cleveland for that matter.

yeah i feel the same way.. i mean it might not help much.. but IMHO it

seems that the friction from the rust would surely grab the ball at least to some degree more than if it were not there.. (maybe not much.. but some). Now, will i buy a raw-type wedge so it will rust and potentially spin more.. no way. I like my truck clean, and a rusty club rubbing against the seat makes me cringe.. And yes, I read the mentioned article a couple weeks back and just did again.. and it is a fine article. But it simply dismisses the fact that rust is anything but cosmetic without having any real evidence to back it up.. i, too, am curious if there has been any testing done on this topic...

[crazy_horst]

Yes it is true. Placing the wedge in coke WILL strip the finish off of the wedge mentioned above. I did this to strip the finish off of three oil can vokeys.

How did you like the results? I take it they were truly "raw" after that! ;)

Did they rust better, and how do you feel about the rust, the way it affects play? Don't mean to ask too many questions :)

[iacas]

Common sense tells me the opposite - that increased friction would increase the grip on the ball and thus the spin. But I ain't no Bob Villa, or Roger Cleveland for that matter.

Okay, how about this: do you think that putting a bunch of flour (the baking kind, if there are any others) on the face of your club is going to increase friction?

No? Rust is of a similar consistency to flour. It's a flaky substance that reduces the area of contact (albeit on an almost molecular level - very small).

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, but rather would like to know if anyone really has done some testing on this.

Every major manufacturer has done tests. I've seen the results from at least four companies (including one that advertises at the top here). If anything, spin levels are slightly lower for clubs with a LOT of rust on the face.

But seriously - who has rust on the face of their club? One bunker shot or a few swings on the range will take all that off.

And yes, I read the mentioned article a couple weeks back and just did again.. and it is a fine article. But it simply dismisses the fact that rust is anything but cosmetic without having any real evidence to back it up.. i, too, am curious if there has been any testing done on this topic...

It doesn't "dismiss" the point as it does simply say it's wrong and move on to other things. It's not, after all, an article simply answering one question: "what is the effect of rust on the spin a ball gets on full and partial wedge shots from a variety of lies."

The answer in all cases is "little to no change, and when there is a difference, rust = slightly less spin."

[Genericity]

How did you like the results? I take it they were truly "raw" after that! ;)

I live in AZ so raw clubs don't rust fast (if at all) on their own. So to answer your question I hated the oil can look but I did not want chromed wedges. I prefer raw looking wedges - plain metal. The cool thing about coke is it leaves the paint fill in place so you basically have a raw metal wedge with paintfill.

I didn't take the finish off so that they could rust - I took it off because I thought the used oil can finish appeared tawdry. I don't care for rust personally because I know that the more the face of the club rusts the more the edges of the grooves disappear - rounded edges = worn grooves = less spin. <- This is entirely my opinion and I am not a scientist although I do have a white lab coat (which I am currently wearing).

[Zakko]

One of the main selling ponits of the RTG & Oil Can wedges is that they indeed increase spin on the ball to a 'spin-milled' type effect. If Cleveland couldn't produce any emperical evidence upon their claims, they'd be hit with a false advertisement quicker than I can 3 putt.

When my wedges rust up, they don't become "powdery," they acutally get abrasive to the touch.

[iacas]

One of the main selling ponits of the RTG & Oil Can wedges is that they indeed increase spin on the ball to a 'spin-milled' type effect. If Cleveland couldn't produce any emperical evidence upon their claims, they'd be hit with a false advertisement quicker than I can 3 putt.

"Spin milled" = grooves. It has nothing to do with rust or not. And what's Cleveland got to do with "Spin Milled"? That's Titleist.

When my wedges rust up, they don't become "powdery," they acutally get abrasive to the touch.

Rust itself is a very brittle substance.

Furthermore, are your tires on your car "rough" to the touch? No, because they'd be worse at gripping the road. Have you ever heard of "racing slicks"? They're tires without tread, because a smooth surface that grips along more surface area is better at gripping than a rough edge. The purpose of grooves on a clubface - or tread on tires - is to channel away debris so the clubface/rubber can grip the ball. Anything that's "rougher" will, to some degree, grip less effectively - particularly if part of that surface breaks free as rust tends to do during impact.

[crazy_horst]

"Spin milled" = grooves. It has nothing to do with rust or not. And what's Cleveland got to do with "Spin Milled"? That's Titleist.

If you read it carefully he said "spin-milled type effect".

Rust itself is a very brittle substance.

That's an interesting explanation; that makes sense to me. Thank you.

[HarlDane]

One of the main selling ponits of the RTG & Oil Can wedges is that they indeed increase spin on the ball to a 'spin-milled' type effect. If Cleveland couldn't produce any emperical evidence upon their claims, they'd be hit with a false advertisement quicker than I can 3 putt.

Increased feel and reduced glare are the reasons given for the oil can/RTG finish (at least according to the Titleist and Cleveland websites). The exposed steel is softer and reflects less light than a chrome finish, the rust is merely another symptom of having no chrome on the club. The clubs will play just as well if you maintain them to keep the rust away and will most likely last longer because the rust won't be eating away at the face of the club.

[sandtrap]

Yes it is true. Placing the wedge in coke WILL strip the finish off of the wedge mentioned above. I did this to strip the finish off of three oil can vokeys.

And you drink that stuff?